Cossie, Scooby, Evo 6 and Cav Turbo
06 February 2002, 03:56 PM
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Come on people. Any thoughts?
I would say Evo 6, would win, then Scooby then Cav Turbo then Cossie (I'm thinking escort). The handling of the evo and scooby are as far as i know much better than that of the Cav or Cossie. The cav has a better top speed than the Escort and i believe its as good if not better than a standard UK scooby due to 6th gear.
The evo and scooby have more alround power and driveability.
I would say Evo 6, would win, then Scooby then Cav Turbo then Cossie (I'm thinking escort). The handling of the evo and scooby are as far as i know much better than that of the Cav or Cossie. The cav has a better top speed than the Escort and i believe its as good if not better than a standard UK scooby due to 6th gear.
The evo and scooby have more alround power and driveability.
06 February 2002, 04:45 PM
#6
agree with the cav being sh!te 
been in a modded one and that wasnt as bad but they have unreliable transmissions 
the calibra turbo is sh1te too don't rate the escort cossie handling but they are fast (very f*cking fast) in a straight line, scoob handles well but drove a uk one and found it gutless and evos are just mental
been in a modded one and that wasnt as bad but they have unreliable transmissions the calibra turbo is sh1te too don't rate the escort cossie handling but they are fast (very f*cking fast) in a straight line, scoob handles well but drove a uk one and found it gutless and evos are just mental
06 February 2002, 05:15 PM
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0-60 Acceleration - EVO then Scoob then Cossie then Cav
80 and upwards acceleration (rolling start from 80MPH) - EVO/Cavalier (not sure how EVO does high end), Cossie, Scoob (gearing you see)
Handling - Evo/Scoob, Cav/Cossie
Top Speed - Cavalier, EVO, Cossie, Scoob (again gears)
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06 February 2002, 06:06 PM
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I've owned a Cossie (rwd) and WRX Impreza. Drive at length a Cavalier Turbo and a 4x4 Cosworth (Sierra but similar handling to the Escort. Not had any experience of the EVO.
The Cavalier will come bottom in everything. Just the ****test car ever. The lad bought it just by reading the supposed performance figures for the car, big mistake.
Worst straightline performance, worst handling, worst reliability.
The Cossie and Scoob are in a different league completely.
The Scoob had better handling as standard, without a doubt.
The Scoob had better acceleration upto a point...then it runs out of steam, and the Cosworth would pull ahead. I reckon the Scoobs acceleration advantage is due to the gearing (in part); I have hit the rev limiter in my Scoob several times in 1st and 2nd due to the gearing being so short...i was used to my Cossies long g/box.
The Cossie is better in 3rd upwards. The Scoob feels much more solidly built, like it'll take a hammering much easier than the Cosworth.
Just my opinion but atleast it's from experience. No nufink about the EVO so woulkdnt comment.
The Cavalier will come bottom in everything. Just the ****test car ever. The lad bought it just by reading the supposed performance figures for the car, big mistake.
Worst straightline performance, worst handling, worst reliability.
The Cossie and Scoob are in a different league completely.
The Scoob had better handling as standard, without a doubt.
The Scoob had better acceleration upto a point...then it runs out of steam, and the Cosworth would pull ahead. I reckon the Scoobs acceleration advantage is due to the gearing (in part); I have hit the rev limiter in my Scoob several times in 1st and 2nd due to the gearing being so short...i was used to my Cossies long g/box.
The Cossie is better in 3rd upwards. The Scoob feels much more solidly built, like it'll take a hammering much easier than the Cosworth.
Just my opinion but atleast it's from experience. No nufink about the EVO so woulkdnt comment.
06 February 2002, 06:24 PM
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CC - You have to keep it in perspective. Match the cars by keeping them standard i.e. 204BHP Cav, 220BHP Escort, 208BHP Scooby (UK spec) and you can then begin. Its obvious that a P1 will **** on the other standard ones so lets not get our knickers in a twist
Standard UK spec Scooby V Standard Cosworth V Standard Cavalier Turbo.
Get them on an airfield/track and you'll see the following -
0-60 = Scoob, Cosworth, Cav. The Scoob has nice short gearing for sprints and the Cosworth is a bit lighter than the Cav and has a bit more power.
Rolling start from 80MPH (i.e. coast at 80MPH then floor it) = Cavalier, Cosworth, Scooby. The Scoob gearing is too short for the same performance as it does 0-60. Cosworth is starting to lag for some reason (see my quote below which came from the Autocar test and I can scan it in for you)
Vauxhall would argue that the Cavalier is a very different beast from the Escort Cosworth and doesn’t bear comparison. Nevertheless, its hard to ignore the fact that, with an advantage of 16bhp and 17lb ft, the Ford is only fractionally quicker from rest (60mph in 6.2secs, quarter mile in 14.9secs, 100mph in 17.4secs). In terms of top speed there is no argument: the Cavalier will reach 144mph, some 7mph faster than the Cossie.
Handling = Scoob, Cav/Cosworth (or Cosworth/Cav if you like as its similar)
Dont just say the Cav is **** or the Evo is **** or the Cosworth is ****. Explain why and mebbe your views can then carry some weight.
Its easy to say statements but so much harder to back them up in a reasonable manner
06 February 2002, 06:25 PM
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I owned a Calibra Turbo, very similar to the Cav, and then went on to an Evo 2, and the Evo, even though it was only a 2, would absolutely blow the Calibra/Cav away on acceleration and handling. You will also probably not have 4WD on the Calibra/Cav as the transfer boxes are absolutely sh!te and are always going wrong.....
06 February 2002, 06:35 PM
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You will also probably not have 4WD on the Calibra/Cav as the transfer boxes are absolutely sh!te and are always going wrong
Its not the only car. The GTiR manual also states that you need to rotate the tyres to keep it working.
From what I have been told, the new Impreza 4WD system is VERY similar to the old Vauxhall system...... Shall we see what happens in a few years ??
Have a look here and understand the 4WD system before you write it off completely - www.cav-turbo.co.uk/4wd_general.html (click on the transfer box link at the side)
07 February 2002, 10:06 PM
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Richie1, I quote you
"Its obvious that a P1 will **** on the other standard ones so lets not get our knickers in a twist"
Who mentioned a P1? I didnt, so why have you?
I am referring to standard cars.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vauxhall would argue that the Cavalier is a very different beast from the Escort Cosworth and doesn’t bear comparison. Nevertheless, its hard to ignore the fact that, with an advantage of 16bhp and 17lb ft, the Ford is only fractionally quicker from rest (60mph in 6.2secs, quarter mile in 14.9secs, 100mph in 17.4secs). In terms of top speed there is no argument: the Cavalier will reach 144mph, some 7mph faster than the Cossie.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You rate cars by magazines, fair enough. I rate them on EXPERIENCE. Did you read my post properly? I have had extensive experience of all cars except the EVO. If you really do believe all that you read then you are heading for the same mistakes that I and no doubt others have made.
QUOTE
"Dont just say the Cav is **** or the Evo is **** or the Cosworth is ****. Explain why and mebbe your views can then carry some weight. Its easy to say statements but so much harder to back them up in a reasonable manner"
I didnt say anything about the EVO as I have NO experience. But I will say that the Cav Turbo is **** because it is, and that is the opinion of two of mines friends who bought them and soon sold them too.
'Explain why' you ask....again, personal experience. Having OWNED a Cosworth and Impreza, driven a Cav at length. What is your experience? Or do you go by magazines?
I dont rate mags but if you wanna go down that route, remember REV sometime ago? Sierra Cosworth vs Calibra Turbo vs 200SX vs FTO (Mitsu).
The Cav came bottom in everything and did a 7.??secs 0-60mph, 135mph. The Cosworth was the only car to get 6.??secs 0-60mph (clutch slip too).
Sorry if you dont like my opinion, may be you own or aspire to a Cav Turbo. They is well rank in my opinion and this is from *experience*, not magazines.
Cheers.
"Its obvious that a P1 will **** on the other standard ones so lets not get our knickers in a twist"
Who mentioned a P1? I didnt, so why have you?
I am referring to standard cars.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vauxhall would argue that the Cavalier is a very different beast from the Escort Cosworth and doesn’t bear comparison. Nevertheless, its hard to ignore the fact that, with an advantage of 16bhp and 17lb ft, the Ford is only fractionally quicker from rest (60mph in 6.2secs, quarter mile in 14.9secs, 100mph in 17.4secs). In terms of top speed there is no argument: the Cavalier will reach 144mph, some 7mph faster than the Cossie.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You rate cars by magazines, fair enough. I rate them on EXPERIENCE. Did you read my post properly? I have had extensive experience of all cars except the EVO. If you really do believe all that you read then you are heading for the same mistakes that I and no doubt others have made.
QUOTE
"Dont just say the Cav is **** or the Evo is **** or the Cosworth is ****. Explain why and mebbe your views can then carry some weight. Its easy to say statements but so much harder to back them up in a reasonable manner"
I didnt say anything about the EVO as I have NO experience. But I will say that the Cav Turbo is **** because it is, and that is the opinion of two of mines friends who bought them and soon sold them too.
'Explain why' you ask....again, personal experience. Having OWNED a Cosworth and Impreza, driven a Cav at length. What is your experience? Or do you go by magazines?
I dont rate mags but if you wanna go down that route, remember REV sometime ago? Sierra Cosworth vs Calibra Turbo vs 200SX vs FTO (Mitsu).
The Cav came bottom in everything and did a 7.??secs 0-60mph, 135mph. The Cosworth was the only car to get 6.??secs 0-60mph (clutch slip too).
Sorry if you dont like my opinion, may be you own or aspire to a Cav Turbo. They is well rank in my opinion and this is from *experience*, not magazines.
Cheers.
07 February 2002, 10:12 PM
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Dont get me wrong, they have there purpose as a nippy family runabout, but to compare to the Cosworth/Impreza/EVO breed is sacrilige
Different class altogether. i.e >
Lightly souped up Rep mobile vs Rally bred detuned road cars
Anne Robinson vs Kelly Brook
Which would you prefer?
PS how many Cav Turbos do you see competing in magazine shootouts such as Top Speed, 1/4 mile test, rolling road tests, 0-60s??
Cant even believe I am responding to this so I'll leave you to it from here on in, just to say, let us know when you buy a Cav Turbo as I could do with a laugh.
Different class altogether. i.e >
Lightly souped up Rep mobile vs Rally bred detuned road cars
Anne Robinson vs Kelly Brook
Which would you prefer?
PS how many Cav Turbos do you see competing in magazine shootouts such as Top Speed, 1/4 mile test, rolling road tests, 0-60s??
Cant even believe I am responding to this so I'll leave you to it from here on in, just to say, let us know when you buy a Cav Turbo as I could do with a laugh.
08 February 2002, 09:53 AM
#15
CC
You got that revs bit slightly wrong it was 2 wheeel drive sapphire cossie v calibra turbo v lancia 8 valve integrale v nissan 200 sx. The fto wasn't in it. And yes the calibra was sh1te I think the outcome was cossie fastest then integrale (down by 8 valves on the rest booo) then nissan 200 then last but not least the calibra.
You got that revs bit slightly wrong it was 2 wheeel drive sapphire cossie v calibra turbo v lancia 8 valve integrale v nissan 200 sx. The fto wasn't in it. And yes the calibra was sh1te
I think the outcome was cossie fastest then integrale (down by 8 valves on the rest booo) then nissan 200 then last but not least the calibra.
08 February 2002, 12:49 PM
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What about the Fiat Coupe 20v turbo, isnt that quicker to 100 than all but the evo. I have driven one and they are quick again like the cosworth you dont get the Impreza low geared 4wd initial punch, just keeps on accelerating.
Contrary to what you might think, they do handle as well.
Pretty good until it breaks !
Contrary to what you might think, they do handle as well.
Pretty good until it breaks !
08 February 2002, 12:51 PM
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Oh and Standard Cossie, are there still any ?
204 bhp was a big deal in 1986 but only average (in performance car terms) nowadays, even a Honda Civic comes with nigh on 200 bhp !
I guess we havejust got used to big numbers.
204 bhp was a big deal in 1986 but only average (in performance car terms) nowadays, even a Honda Civic comes with nigh on 200 bhp !
I guess we havejust got used to big numbers.
08 February 2002, 02:20 PM
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COSSIE COSSIE COSSIE 
maybe because i have 1
(i can only comment on the escort cosworth t25 )
But seriously all in standard form the EVO 6 will kick *** .
EVO 6 ... 280 bhp
ESCORT COSSIE ...227bhp
uk SCOOBY ... 208 bhp
CAV TURBO ... 204 bhp
ive driven all cars mentioned apart from cav turbo.The EVO6 is best. amazing handling ,good speeds etc , then the COSSIE then SCOOBY then CAV turbo . IMHO the scooby uk 208 bhp and cav turbo 204 bhp isnt even a close match for the evo n cossie .
however if its about STIs, P1s,and 22bs etc then its a totally different story.
maybe because i have 1
(i can only comment on the escort cosworth t25 )
But seriously all in standard form the EVO 6 will kick *** .
EVO 6 ... 280 bhp
ESCORT COSSIE ...227bhp
uk SCOOBY ... 208 bhp
CAV TURBO ... 204 bhp
ive driven all cars mentioned apart from cav turbo.The EVO6 is best. amazing handling ,good speeds etc , then the COSSIE then SCOOBY then CAV turbo . IMHO the scooby uk 208 bhp and cav turbo 204 bhp isnt even a close match for the evo n cossie .
however if its about STIs, P1s,and 22bs etc then its a totally different story.
08 February 2002, 06:31 PM
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Another point the 0-60 etc quoted for the Cossie is the Larger turbo mdl (the best for tuning), the smaller turbo one is quicker to 60 (5.7 i think) and more flexable. I think the cavalier should be compared to vr6 golfs and such like!
11 February 2002, 06:12 AM
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hi carlos (dodgey name car loss
)so i stay somewhere in fife between forth road bridge and st andrews with loads off security and big dogs and ....
... na near letham glen m8 .Good post sparks ...
i know the cav turbo is a very capable motor with few wee mods , its easily capable off 300 bhp.
which totally transforms the motor.
my escort cossie has a few mods now and its around 300 bhp also .
02 September 2002, 09:55 PM
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the rating that people have given seem sensible ( evo/scoob/cossie/cav )
I've got a cav T that I bought off a certain Mr R. ( no, not Mr "cossie" R - the other one! ).
Cav is a capable engine power wise - its just no-one spends the cash on them - how many have you seen with programmable management ? The money gets spent on superchips etc. Drop the comp ratio a little, find a nice T34 off a rusty old ford bit of programmable management and it will jump up the power scales a fair bit. 300bhp/300lb/ft is possible with this sort of setup at around 1.5bar. It wouldn't actually be too expensive to do this, ( well compared to what some scoob boys spend ) but the newest cav turbos are now 8 years old, if you pay £4k for one you've been well and truely done my son.. so if you've just paid £4k for a car are you gonna spend 3-5k making the car worthwhile (brakes, suspension,engine.. etc etc) ? of course not, if you have that sort of cash you'd be looking torwards a scoob/evo/supra/gt4 etc anyway.
If someone like grahame goode / MA Developments had been given an open cheque book on a cav turbo in say 1993 I reckon things would be alot different now for these engines...
Handling on the stock car is... err.. "interesting" . A smile appears now as I'm sure you all remember JasonM and the imfamous koni kit quote. Well they do improve the car alot, but its still not going to be a match for a scoob is it ?
Whoever said you should compare to a Vr6 was right. Vr6, Renault 21 turbo ( quadras are rare but 2wd ones are about) etc are more the cav rival than scoob / evo6 and (in stock form anyway) the cossie.
Comparing a cav to a scoob is a bit like comparing a mk2 golf gti and a civic typer. Both pretty good cars, but from different eras.
Cav is an easy car to drive, no nasty lift off oversteer etc, but once you know how the car will handle you can cater for the characteristics of a car ( e.g. lift off OS. ).
Theres no doubt the japs are miles ahead of the rest of em in terms of engineering/innvoation.
Sadly things continue with the japs in front. Try comparing a 02 UK Sti with an Astra Coupe (2.0 180bhp) or Golf Gti/Audi A3 Turbo ( both same engine ). 1.8 turbo, 150bhp ? my old NA cav gsi had that!
Haven't driven a cossie/evo/scoob but thats the way I see it.
Edited to say...
I still like the cav shape. Mine is pretty stock body wise, just dumped on the floor with wheels. I'll miss it when its gone. Oh and the 6 speed box is nice to have.. will miss that too....
Note cav/calibra share vital components but are quite different to drive. I think calibras are nasty to drive, big floppy thing you can't see out of...
[Edited by Sparks - 2/9/2002 10:06:00 PM]
I've got a cav T that I bought off a certain Mr R. ( no, not Mr "cossie" R - the other one! ).
Cav is a capable engine power wise - its just no-one spends the cash on them - how many have you seen with programmable management ? The money gets spent on superchips etc. Drop the comp ratio a little, find a nice T34 off a rusty old ford
bit of programmable management and it will jump up the power scales a fair bit. 300bhp/300lb/ft is possible with this sort of setup at around 1.5bar. It wouldn't actually be too expensive to do this, ( well compared to what some scoob boys spend ) but the newest cav turbos are now 8 years old, if you pay £4k for one you've been well and truely done my son.. so if you've just paid £4k for a car are you gonna spend 3-5k making the car worthwhile (brakes, suspension,engine.. etc etc) ? of course not, if you have that sort of cash you'd be looking torwards a scoob/evo/supra/gt4 etc anyway.If someone like grahame goode / MA Developments had been given an open cheque book on a cav turbo in say 1993 I reckon things would be alot different now for these engines...
Handling on the stock car is... err.. "interesting" . A smile appears now as I'm sure you all remember JasonM and the imfamous koni kit quote. Well they do improve the car alot, but its still not going to be a match for a scoob is it ?
Whoever said you should compare to a Vr6 was right. Vr6, Renault 21 turbo ( quadras are rare but 2wd ones are about) etc are more the cav rival than scoob / evo6 and (in stock form anyway) the cossie.
Comparing a cav to a scoob is a bit like comparing a mk2 golf gti and a civic typer. Both pretty good cars, but from different eras.
Cav is an easy car to drive, no nasty lift off oversteer etc, but once you know how the car will handle you can cater for the characteristics of a car ( e.g. lift off OS. ).
Theres no doubt the japs are miles ahead of the rest of em in terms of engineering/innvoation.
Sadly things continue with the japs in front. Try comparing a 02 UK Sti with an Astra Coupe (2.0 180bhp) or Golf Gti/Audi A3 Turbo ( both same engine ). 1.8 turbo, 150bhp ? my old NA cav gsi had that!
Haven't driven a cossie/evo/scoob but thats the way I see it.
Edited to say...
I still like the cav shape. Mine is pretty stock body wise, just dumped on the floor with wheels. I'll miss it when its gone. Oh and the 6 speed box is nice to have.. will miss that too....
Note cav/calibra share vital components but are quite different to drive. I think calibras are nasty to drive, big floppy thing you can't see out of...
[Edited by Sparks - 2/9/2002 10:06:00 PM]
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