Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Hello to those that can remember me, its been a v long time since I last posted. Since selling the Scoob and getting the 330Ci havent really had much fun on the petrol front but all thats about to change as I've got my self a cheap little track toy.

Its not quite ready for use yet as its now with the guys at L.A.D Motorsport having the engine tinkered with plus ditching the crappy 3 point harnesses for some 4 point ones and getting the seats remounted on new box section (Im useless with a welder).
Will be ready before the end of the month as I've a day at Donnington on the 6th of July!

Anyway, here are some pics after I picked it up the other day:

rob878

Very nice, but not trying to be arguementative, what made you go to L.A.D motorsport? Personally i have only heard terrible things about them, particularly with saxos and inflated hp figures. In contrast, Skip Brown appears to be the engine builder of choice for pugs.

Anyway enjoy it mine has been a riot so far and love it to bits

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

To be honest, I couldnt give a monkeys about HP figures.

They're near by.

The car was pretty much sorted (solid bodywork, decent suspension, brakes, 309 rear beam, cage etc etc) and all that I couldnt be 100% on was having a totally solid engine to use on trackdays although it did go really well with good throttle response.
Its an old car and I wanted to have the engine rebuilt, LAD is fairly near to me and after going and having a chat with the guys there, I was happy with how they came across and what they said. No promises of HP gains were made (and none asked actually), although a rough guide was offered to what I might expect. If it gets another 30HPish from being polished/ported, different cam etc then great, but if it makes a difference to the driveability then thats all that matters to me.

Looking forward to using it!!

BOB.T

I'd get them to move that fire extinguisher too

Have fun!

Gutmann pug

Costing you a few quid to get an extra 30bhp I think

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

The engine was smoking intermittently, sometimes not at all, then sometimes pulling up to a junction and setting off again it would dump a big cloud of smoke then nothing again for ages, so there was something a miss so it needed looking at anyway, so its getting a full rebuild as well as uprated some of the parts. The cost of buying the car makes it more than justified though... And its not that expensive. (and theres 12 months parts/labour warranty)

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Just done some digging on LAD, seems of late to not have had the most amazing of press! Well, we'll see what its like when its finished...

rob878

I wasn't trying to second guess your choice of engine builders. ust going off different sites that i have used over the years. Here's a site however that use a lot 205GTIDrivers.com

It's a great source of info.

j4ckos mate

what about skip brown in middlewich somewhere are they still going,

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

No worries, I'll have a look at the site so cheers for that.
As for LAD, so far from my own experience with them its been fine and certainly compared to some people I've delt with or spoken to in the Subaru tuning world, they've been a pleasure to deal with. Obviously, if they do a cr@p job then I'll be going back to pay them a visit! But lets see what its like when its done, not too long to go now only another week or so.

rb5_336

good to see another track pug around

Shame you found LAD, too late now, just make sure if they charge you for 30bhp extra you actually have it. They are crooks and I know this from personal experience, I took them to court and won!

Here's mine, also back on the road i na few weeks (hopefully) after another round of work:



205gtidrivers is a great forum for 205 knowledge, also try talk-torque.com

Sean

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Sean!

As I said, if its cr*p then I'll be going back to see them and getting them to either sort it or get my money back (although for a full rebuild including uprated parts - cam, clutch, oil pump and polished/port with 12 months warranty for £1.5k I didnt think that was extortionate?) they arent far from me at all and there's another RR near by that I can quite easily get a power run on to see whats what compared to LAD's RR.
What they said is they'd do a run before the work to show what is was producing then after they've done the work and I've run it in, to bring it back to make a comparison. Must say, the RR they have doesnt look like any of the ones I've been used to going on when I had Scoobs, looks proper old!

Really looking forward to my first day with it at Donny on the 6th, so far I've not really driven it in anger, but the little bit I did get with it felt really sorted in terms of handling.

What've you had done to yours?

Jeff

rb5_336

Jeh Jenn.

First the negative stuff. I've been around pugs long enough, and especially getting engines rebuild to know that for parts (some uprated like cam) and fitting there is no way on this earth can it be done for £1.5k (plus vat) and for them to make a profit. So if they have said they are doinmg a full rebuild (bottom and head) and putting in a new cam the chances you are seriously getting ripped off, sorry! My advice is to clarify in writing what the scope of work is.

Read this article (160bhp scam section) and have a think who the company being referred to are:

Puma Race Engines - Peugot 205 8 valve engine tuning guide

the positive stuff:

Goot to hear it drives well on track. I've driven caterhams and scoobies on track,and I mush prefer the pug. Get some tuition in and learn how to get the most out of these great little cars.

My car's details are on my website track-monkey.co.uk

It's got a few modifications and had a few rebuilds :-D

Sean

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

What does "Jeh Jenn." Mean?

Well, I suppose 'full re-build' is perhaps a little mis-leading on my part, so apologies on that.
For £1.5k, I'm getting new pistons, liners, mains/big end, cam, clutch, oil pump, polish port. 12 months warranty. I suppose because about 10 years ago I used to live in the area that LAD are in and they had a pretty good rep at the time I didnt even think to check that they were or werent any good any more.

I've not had chance to drive it on track, but the 25 mile back to my house with the car and then back again to Morecambe to drop off at LAD, I got chance to get a taste of what it'd be like... which is v good!

Just had a quick look at your site...

"...It's got a few modifications and had a few rebuilds..."

FPMSL

Love the E30 BTW!

Jeff

Dream Weaver

Hi Jeff, hope things are well and good to see you have bought a Pug - I'm selling mine at the minute and have a few spares so PM me if you need anything.

I would heed Sean's advice about LAD though, get it down in writing what you will be getting, and whether parts are new or refurbed - pistons/liners from Pug are about £700-800 alone for an Mi16 and I would imagine it would be similar for an 8V.

When I was pricing up my Mi16 rebuild it came to over £950 just for the basic parts you mention above. My local tuner was quoting well over £3k to rebuild it with those prices.

In the end I bought an already rebuilt engine for £1k which had cost £1800 to rebuild just for the std bits (i.e. no labour costs), I know 8V will be cheaper but knowing Pug parts prices it won't be much cheaper.

I would be amazed if they can get anything over 130-140bhp from the rebuild. You could have had a GTI-6 engine in for less than a grand with 167bhp as std

And as Bob says, get the fire extinguisher missile removed.

Mine at Oulton last year - Video of Even More Scoobs - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Hi Si

I'm alright ta matey, how's you? Blimey selling your Pug eh? The amount of time and money you've put into it... and now you're selling? Well, suppose thats what happens more often than not, you get it to where you want it.. then you sell it! lol

Well, I must admit when he said what I'd get for the money I didnt hesitate... sounded a great price. I'm going to be dropping in next week at some point so will get a detailed list of whats what. Can't believe I rushed into it, really not like me at all but I suppose cos I havent been on here for ages (or on any similar sites) I hadnt (excuse the pun) got my head in gear. Infact, the car was an impulse buy, I was supposed to be getting a CBR600 or ZX6R but the other weekend I was going cross eyed looking at loads of bikes and also a bit hacked off that I'd missed 4 bikes in a row.. "I've got someone coming to look at it tonight.." > "sold". So took a break and had a quick look at trackday cars on fleabay just for a laugh, anyway... my leathers wont be getting used this year now lol!

As for moving the extinguisher, that will be done when I get the car back. I literally picked the car up on a Wednesday evening drove it home, parked it up and then on the Thursday evening after work I dropped it off at LAD, so I've had no time to do anything to it. To be fair, it doesnt really need anything (apart from engine work) but will deffo be in touch as and when. Can you PM me the type of stuff you're talking about?

Cheers

Jeff

Dream Weaver

We have a little lad now so the 205 doesn't get used, I have a Focus ST instead which is getting used daily and about to be remapped

For the Pug I just have stuff like spare wishbones, some bushes, inlet manifolds, wiring, some induction stuff and various other parts - just PM me if you ever need anything, I can usually get it.

And make sure you join 205gtidrivers.com - takes time to join, but so worth it.

rb5_336

just my crappy typing mate

To help you verify the scope of work and top try and stop another person getting ripped of by these crooks, here's a rough list of the scope of work for a rebuild that you mention, you can take this with you and talk around the details with them:

Head:

• Wash Cylinder Head
• Skim head / block
• Check/replace valves as necessary
• Valve seats cut
• Check springs/retainers - replace as neccesary - higher lift cams will probably need uprated springs
• Clean & grind valves
• Strip and assemble
• Shims as necessary (especially if a different cam
• Head set
• Head bolts
• You mentioned a port job - the average cost of a plain port job is about £400

Bottom:

• Engine strip & clean
• Measure / grind crank as appropriate
• Pistons and liners (if you were getting new then you'd probably put oversised pistons/liners in, and probably also get higher compression pistons to get some good improvements in compression and squish) - just for these you are talking - £450 inc. vat is the absolute minimum you'd have to pay for cast pistons and liners (retail)
• Big and main bearings
• Bottom end seals
• Bottom and assembly
• New cam (ensure it's not just your original cam, special imported cam from france they normally say, yes 20 years ago when the car left the factory more like!)
• Cambelt and tensioner
• New clutch you mentioned (just a plate or also the cover?) - ideally for a track car you'd want a paddle plate, but it's no big deal for standard torque i'd say
• ARP bolts a necessity for a track car spending most of its life upper in the rev range
• Ideally as a track car you'd want a bottom end balance
• Check oil pump for wear and replace as nesesary

Labour:

• Remove & install into car
• Final assemble of head and bottom
• Coolant
• Engine & gear oil (what engine oil they putting in, you'd want to be using decent fully synthetic on an engine that's going to have a hard life, of cource they wpuld probably recommend something different for run in)
• You'd also want a full service (leads, plugs, dizzy, rotor arm, fuel filter) etc.

Things to note are:
1 - When rebuilding end engine, it's intended use (road vs track vs race etc.) will determine many factors in terms of how it's rebuilt, the tollerances and the parts used. They haven't even mentioned/asked any such questions or offered any advice - so a reason to get worried already. Why would you rebuild it to road spec if its inded application is track and you could rebuild it to a more appropriate spec not necessarily for any more dosh )as an example the amount to skim the head for road vs track use would be different but would be very similar in cost)
2 - There's no way you'd get all the above the the cost you mention, not even remotely close, so another reason to be worried.

The good thing about the internet and forums like this, is there are decent people around that can help other decent folk from getting ripped off!

Good luck with it

Sean

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Nice one Si, congrats (although I'm sure I'm well late on that one ;-)
Will let you know if (when) I need some bits and pieces!

Sean,

Much appreciated for the input, as for them knowing whats its intended use is, they know. Told them what its for, track use only and he mentioned putting a cam in that would be good for that use, also said the warranty would also cover track (ab)use.

Going to talk to them in much more detail about this next week, will let you know my findings... should be interesting.

I know when I had TEG rebuild my scoob engine it was substantially more than that, and that was just a basic rebuild!

Jeff