Martin2005

I'm seriously thinking about moving on from my MY05 Type-25 to some V8 power.
The reasons are the ridiculous running costs of my scooby, plus I fancy something different.
Here's my questions:-

Does anyone know anything about Monaro's (either the 5.7 or 6L)?

Are the running cost likely to be any less than my Scooby?

Reliability?

Real world performance, how will a Monaro compare to what I've currently got?

What tuning potential do they have (on a limited budget)?

I've looked on Auto Trader and there's a few low mileage 05 5.7L for about £15k, which seems like a lot of car for the money!

Finally anyone want a T25?

Cheers

Martin

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I read last night that they dont feel quite as quick as you would expect, in Autocar, they drove a 538 bhp Supercharged version and said it was very quick but not 538 bhp's worth of quick, quite heavy and the gearchange is truck like and slow, meant to be great but make sure you get a long test drive and decide whether it suits you or you are just caught up in new car frenzy.

My mate who is into his Astra's, GSI's went on about getting one for two years then drove one on a VXR day and changed his mind, he is now after a WR1 Scoob.

My uncle is a Rover fiend, its not quite the same but he has a BRM and a ZT V8 and in some ways prefers the smaller lighter BRM.

stilover

Didn't Evo Magazine compare an RS4 with 6L Monoro?

Had no advantage over the RS4 even though it had over 100BHP advantage.

Shark Man

I've got one PLease excuse the long winded copy/paste below.....

Running costs:
Well it's not old enough to incurr anything major. It's under warrantee, and the only thing thats broke is a clip on the glove box and a central locking motor. I have heard people have drivetrain issues on supercharged cars - but I would say thats to be expected when its pushing an extra 100bhp!

Vauxhall service was peanuts. But be warned: if you want it serviced by Vauxhall: only their approved agents have the facilities to do so - and they are few and far between. But they are no different in service to other Vauxhall agents (make of that what you will).

Fuel consumption swings between 18mpg in heavy town driving, up to 22mpg mixed communting, 24mpg on a varied run, pushing 27mpg on a slow motorway cruise. So not too bad for a 6.0 V8. The trick is to drop it into 6th as soon as you reach 40mph. Skipping gears if need be - it doesn't matter 1st to 3rd to 5th, or pull away in 2nd then 4th then 6th...its not a fussy engine.

Driving:
The engine's torque at low revs is a bit dissapointing on the 6.0 LS2. Two reasons: it revs to 7000rpm - without any other fancy valvetrain technology, there has to be a compromise! And secondly, it has an electronic throttle with something they call "torque management". Put simply - Below 3000rpm it doesn't always do what your foot tells it too (although handy in the wet)...a remap quickly sorts that out and makes throttle response better. The 5.7 has a mechanical throttle, so I don't think it suffers from that problem.

It's not as fast as a scoob - especially 0-60. Basically because you can't get the power down. But this car will pull in any gear, at any speed, no waiting for turbos, no fussing about which gear your in (although, it is insane if you get the gear changes right). But one important thing: This car refuses to understeer in all but the most extreme situations - thats very refreshing after comming from a scoob. If anything its daunting how such a big car turns into corner so well as such silly speeds. It does seem to defy physics.

To compare, it did a 1:30.1 on the TG track: Power Laps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So its up there with alot of top cars, but it does suffer for its weight, size and traction.

The ride is softer, alot more comfy, but it doesn't seem to roll or pitch or dive much when pushing it. But you are aware of the car's size and weight, and it is tail happy. Extreme caution is needed in the wet. Especially if its wearing the factory Pirellis on the rear - which I don't rate very highly on cold/wet roads. It will spin up teh back wheel with ease in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and will have a go at doing it in 4th...something to be very aware of as when that happens your doing 60mph+. So it does need to be driven with alot of respect - on damp roads at least as the traction control is very passive and often gets caught snoozing. In the dry you'll struggle to unstick it. But in the wet or when pushed, it will test your driving and car control skills.

It would be a good idea if buying second hand to check out the rear control arms on the suspension - as I guess many may have side swiped a curb - evidence will be the clean lower control arms after being replaced

The diff has a very tight LSD, so this does allow easy tail-out action, but it does make the car more dodgy in the wet and it eats the rear tyres as well (you can hear them squeeling when making tight turns at low speed).

Steering:
Is light (as is everything these days) but does weight up a little, so its not totally numb.

Gearbox:
Clunky and heavy. But never awkward and it always goes into gear easily. You get used to it: Its a man's gearbox

Clutch:
Doddle, its not heavy IMO. But I guess someone might disagree.

Brakes:
Mine are fine (VXR 6.0 ). Its a softish pedal, but quite progressive, its also difficult to heel and toe with. I hear of lots of people complaining about the brakeing performnace across the board, the CV8s are said to be quite poor. But my driving style generally give the brakes an easy time (which is why I never had issues with a pair of well set-up 2pots on a Scoob).

Practicality:
It's big. No, It's huge! It dwarfs a 5 series BMW, the main problem being the width - you will struggle getting it in tight parking spaces, and forget fitting it in the garage of the average modern 4 bedroomed detached.

Rear leg room in the back is massive, getting in an out is a pain, but once your in its great, for those family guys out there - it does have ISO fix points (but, for the pushchair/toys read the warning about the boot). Front seats are comfy and hold you in, but I don't like the seating position - it seems your sat very high and the seat won't adjust any lower (all electric btw)

Interior:
Has all the usual toys, finish maybe a little on the cheapish side (paint rubs off on the silver trim), but its pretty solid, nice leather/suede and no rattles. Radio is a bit pants though. It has a 6cd changer, but the sound quality is muffled and boomy. But as OEM radios go, its acceptable. Radio doesn't appear to have RDS either, which seems odd.

Boot:
Now be VERY careful here. Later VXR models have the petrol tank in the boot. Because of this its next to useless. Older cars have a huge boot as the tank is underneath. The later cars you cannot even fit in the luggage for a long weekend for two. For me, this has ruined the car for me - I can't do any road trips or touring in it

Mods:
Expensive across the board; think of scoob prices and double it. I was quite shocked at what UK tuners are offering for this car. Exhaust are silly money. So much so, that if it were me I'd get my own welded up - No exhaust system warrants a £1K price tag. Which is a shame; as the main thing thats missing on this car is the noise!

US tuners (the car is a Pontiac GTO over there) aren't that much better either - so barring camshaft and valve springs importing parts is no better. Although you may get your hand on a good price for a Supercharger kit (bolt-on kits do exist, just add remap).

The main things that apparently get good power are: Camshaft (needs new valve springs to cope), or Supercharger - and obviously a remap to tweek things. Remapping can be done yourself if you purchase the LS-edit software license. There is stuff like Cold Air Intake kits (CAI) and filters etc, but being honest - at what they cost, save the money for a remap. Exhaust headers are another mod, but the stock is farily well designed.

The suspension has a lot of compliance. Which some tuners offer poly-bush kits for. Personally I think the compliance suits the car perfectly for the bumpy roads I drive on - if it were stiffer it would make the car too unsettled and jiggly (especially with my rubber band tyres). However if the roads where you live are nice and smooth, then it could be of real benefit.

Big brake kits do exist, along with big price tags. Nothing new there.

To sum up:
It's a lot of car for the money, I can only say that the only way to know what its really like is to try one. On first drive it'll appear to be duanting, especially when manouvering and positioning the car on the road, and you might struggle to make smooth gearchanges. But you quickly get used to it.

I think its a superb car, the only thing I have gripes with is the high seating position, its huge size and useless boot. Either way, I don't regret buying it

The problem for me now is, after the Monaro...what next? On that budget there is nothing that comes close. Perfection would be this car shrunk in the wash - a Calibra-sized Monaro.

Martin2005

Thanks Shark Man for that comprehensive response.

I really am quite tempted, my only concern is that it all going to seem a tame after my T25!

Cheers

Martin

Shark Man

I think that question is one you will have to find out for yourself. Its very difficult to compare, as they are very different in almost every way. I wouldn't say its tame, but I think you will find it won't seem as raw.

Not having driven a T25, I'll have to guess. I will say a T25 would seem more manic, and I guess you may miss the kick of the turbo and the steering being more precise. It also won't flatter your driving skill which Imprezas often do so well.

It does feel like a crude car to drive; I liken it to a crude version of a e39 M5 BMW - if thats any help.

The Monaro does feel like a heavy large car to drive, and the steering isn't a precise as what one would want it to be. Which does intially make you unwilling it to push it round bends. I think that puts off alot of people. But once you've get over that sensation you realise it does corner very well indeed.

I've driven it on some very twisty back roads then did the same in an NSX, and there was nothing in it. The main difference was with the NSX my foot was planted to the floor alot sooner exiting bends and it felt alot more kart-like, when the Monaro felt less precise and softer in terms of positioning it on the road, and I had to be alot more precise with the throttle to keep the rear in line - both cars needed a differnt driving style. And the impreza on the same road even more so - where I needed to enter tight corners much slower, but could get on the power much sooner without any worry of the rear kicking out.

I also had to re-learn driving RWD cars. Seems driving 4wd cars for so long has made me a bit complacent.

the_boy

If it seems a bit tame you could always go for the VXR 500.

Haven't seen many reviews on this from actual people who own one although the 5th Gear review makes it look a bit of an animal.

I love superchargers I do

Stryder

Higher top speed after the RS4 reached it's limiter at 165 mph and the Monaro is about 15 - 20k cheaper.

pippyrips

Can't speak for the Monaro but love my RS4. Sharkman is spot on - in some ways the RS seems less dramatic simply as it is built so well but it does shift!

I've just picked up a milltek exhaust so it will sound the part as of next wekeend

The Zohan

Thank you, an interesting and informative read on a dull Saturday morning

andythejock01wrx

Yes please Martin !

Do you accept credit ?

Martin2005

I've spent all weekend thinking about things, and I'm probably going to stay put. I've looked at what I could get for the money, and the reality is that there really isn't much to replace my T25.

XRS

Except a hawkeye one