Brendan Hughes

Here is a literature review/ Project to assess the impact of SUVs and MPVs on European road safety.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/roadsa...sp1_060405.pdf

There are a lot of details, and some rather surprising (and unsurprising) conclusions. Some are listed below:

Emission results show raised values only for vehicles from the segments SUVs and transporters with diesel engines, for NOx and PM. MPVs did not show a poorer environmental performance than the other vehicle segments. Gasoline engined SUVs and MPVs did not show any noticeable difference to other vehicle segments. With regard to CO2 emissions and accordingly fuel consumption SUV and premium class cars show increased values.

SUV are at a greater risk of overturning in single vehicles collisions compared to other classes. The Dutch and UK data sets support this conclusion, though they record significantly different levels of rollover accidents. The German and Swedish data did not distinguish between rollover and non rollover accidents, and so did not contribute to this conclusion.

The Dutch data suggests that SUV occupants are at lower risk of serious or fatal injury in single vehicle accidents without overturning. The UK data do not show the same effect, which may be down to national differences between the accident populations.

All the national datasets show that SUV occupants appear to be at no greater or lower risk of suffering serious injury in all single vehicle accidents combined.

SUVs tend to be causing higher injury levels than other vehicle classes in collisions with two wheeled motor vehicles, both motorcycles and mopeds. This conclusion is supported by the Dutch, German and Swedish data. The different datasets can not be used to identify the different levels of the effect. The UK data does not strongly support this conclusion.

Dutch, German, and UK data suggest that SUVs offer no more severe injury outcomes to pedestrians than other classes of car. The Swedish data strongly disagrees, suggesting a much higher injury severity for pedestrians hit by SUVs.

Andy M3

So they are great for crashing, but not so good to be crashed into

I notice MPV has been drawn into the equation. Is the general consensus an MPV and SUV in environmental terms are the same thing?

///\oo/\\\

Pretty much as expected Brendan.

Clearly the best place to be as far as SUV's are concerned is inside one

The data pretty much knocks all the scoobynet doubters on the head.

We went with a SWB Shogun DiD in then end. I thought, sod it, if I'm going SUV I might as well get a "proper" one given that it will spend a fair proportion of time actually off road.

Brendan Hughes

No Andy, it says up there that MPV fuel emissions were no different to normal cars. The really weird thing though is that petrol-engined SUVs weren't different either, only diesel engined ones gave higher emissions

///\oo/\\\

Maybe because they put larger diesels into a lot of the SUVs?

- although out 3.2 is averaging over 30 MPG at the moment, which I am quite happy with.

the 71 litre tank is a bit of a scary proposition to fill though

logiclee

Data and figures, we've seen them all before.
RoSPA figures for the UK show mile for mile you are more likely to have an accident and more likely to be injured in a 4X4 than in a family sized saloon.

As for emissions they are published by the manufacturers for all to see.

I run a new Cherokee Auto 160bhp, 295lbft, 2.2tons, 28mpg and 260g/km CO2.
I also have a TDCi Mondeo 130bhp, 265lbft, 1.5tons, 48mpg and 159g/km CO2.

From an envionmental point of view the Jeep is poor, I can't argue it's no different from a family saloon because clearly it isn't.

From a crashing point of view boths cars are NCAP4. If I was to hit another nomal car I'm sure I'd be better off in the Jeep but it's not as clear cut as that. If a tractor was to pull out of a side street or if I miss judged a corner I'm sure I would stand a far better chance not having the accident at all if I had the handling, steering and braking capacity of the Mondeo.

If I was to hit a solid object (lorry etc) in either car then with the same NCAP rating my injuries would be similar in either car. But if I was in the Mondeo would I shed more speed before the impact?

Also there is the the possibility of rolling over in the Jeep that I don't have in the Mondeo should I need to violently swerve.

On a seperate issue it also depends greatly on what vehicle you are in, I had a 15mph crash in a Defender and ended up in hospital. If I had been in a Fiesta or Clio I would have probably walked away.

Cheers
Lee

///\oo/\\\

Lee, the ROSPA figures keep getting mentioned on here, but I've never seen the data - do you have a link or any further information, as they seem to contradict the information Brendan has posted.

That begs the questions - would you be travelling faster in the Mondeo in the first place, due to its handling?

Or would you have the accident in the first place if you could see the tractor coming due to the better visibility in the Jeep?

Likewise the swerve?

I appreciate its all speculation, but you can align the questions any way you want.

logiclee

The exactly the point I was making.

Cheers
Lee

logiclee

I think the RoSPA figures came from the BBC documentary where a family was buying a 4X4 due to the Chelsea image and safety (Didn't need to tow or go off road). They gave them an E Class estate to drive and took them to RoSPA's head quarters where they had the figures explained to them.
They didn't go into types of accidents but they did show that that if the family bought a SUV then they were more likley to have their children injured in an accident in it than if they bought a large family saloon.

As others have already stated figures and data can be quoted to suite any agenda.

Cheers
Lee

Brendan Hughes

Lee, you're rather odd. You say "data and figures, meh" - and then go on to quote data and figures. The above, if you'd care to read it, takes data and figures from a number of different countries, not just one. And those others have just as good road safety records, if not better, than the UK; they would have some sound basis to say the UK figures aren't as reliable as their own. It's not like they're taken from the Greeks.

The other very significant thing is it was done as a basis of a European road safety campaign, and therefore I have no doubt that they were strongly encouraged to find something with which to discourage use of SUVs. When they came up with the above findings, that just tells me that they had real difficulty proving the "general knowledge" is true.

logiclee

Brendan,

The results in the survey can easily be viewed depending on your point of view.
How many of us drive outside the UK? So for UK driving shouldn't we look at UK figures?
The survey did not dismiss UK figures, it suggests our figures may be due to different accident populations (Whatever they mean by that)
I'm not saying which is right and I was quoting other facts and figures just to prove that facts and figures can be made to show anything.
It is fact that in some instances you would be better off in a SUV and in others better of in a modern saloon.

As for emissions the green lot will have a laugh at that survey, they are suggesting that a 4.4V8 petrol SUV has no more emissions than vehicles in other market segments. What does that mean?
I'm sure the idea the greens have of us selling our big engined 4X4's is not to buy an equally big engined 7 Series or Jag. I doubt even the survey would suggest that a big engined 4X4 has no more emissions than a diesel Focus.

I'm not anti 4X4 as I own one, just think it's a pretty pointless survey.

Cheers
Lee

logiclee

I'm just sick of all the miss information to be honest.

A woman had a go at me in Asda carpark for being in the Jeep.

Next to me was a V6 Mondeo, I pointed out to her that the family saloon next to me had similar emissions was longer, wider and had a bigger turning circle so she really should be having a go at the Mondeo driver for polluting the environment and adding to congestion.

She told me I was talking rubbish????

I told her to pi55 off.

Cheers
Lee

///\oo/\\\

I'd guess she's simply regurgitating what's been brainwashed into her, grossly inaccurate as it may be.

Much like what you read in Scoobynet general