Grale

O.k it's time to decide,

Does the LCR out-handle the S3 ? and is it more involving to drive in general, anyone experienced both ?

Both can be re-mapped to 265 bhp without problems so i guess performance would be very similar but the Audi seems to have better build / finish ?

What would you go for any why ?

Cheers folks...

Flat 4x4

For me this question always comes down to 3 things:-

(1) Do you want to use all the power in all conditions ? > S3
(2) Does cost matter ? Yes? > Seat
(3) Does cost really matter > Octavia vRS (235 Jabba'd)

Cupramax

To answer the question raised, I was in this position about a year ago, have driven both, and ended up buying the Leon as it drives and handles much better than the S3. This has been backed up by several magazine road tests. Any S3 owners who say different haven't driven a Cupra R. Its much more alive, quicker steering, humungous Brembo's (always an S3 weakness) lighter due to no 4wd, has 18" wheels standard and is no less well built... and has an engine with Audi badges all over it (as its built by Audi for SEAT.

To its credit the S3 has a nicer interior and a rediculously long options list plus 4wd which gives it an advantage in the wet but thats about as far as it goes. Would you pay £7k more for a badge and 4wd? cos thats about as much difference as there is between the 2....

</me ducks the impending rath of S3 owners>

Veracocha

Ahh, a nice unbiased comment from Cupramax - how refreshing.

Funnily enough I own an S3 and the cupra R drives very similarly to the S3. In the dry I agree it has an edge but to say it is way better is just stupid.

When you chip the S3 (Revo) it also handles the power a lot better in the first three gears especially in the wet.

Basically the Cupra is a cheap/unstylish version of the S3. It does have advantages like better brakes and much cheaper so it is definately a better buy in that area.

I would go Audi everytime as an overall quality car but if price was top of my agenda then the Cupra wins.

Bobby Peru

Golf R32 better than both.

FreeT

" Basically the Cupra is a cheap/unstylish version of the S3. "

Ah bait, yum yum.

The S3 is dated, slower and ridiculously only has 2 doors ?

The LCR is a great shape, faster and funily enough has 4 doors ;-)

Tig

Cupramax

So you're basically agreeing with my unbiased opinion then? By the way the Leon's going soon for an A3 3.2... Unbiased enough for you?

Dracoro

Or the S3 is an overpriced version of the Cupra All depends on your perspective.

Given the choice between the two I don't know which I'd choose. I've never driven either but I'd probably go for the Cupra as it sounds more fun and is a lot less expensive. £7k is a lot to pay for a badge and 4WD and nicer interior.

druddle

Go on Grale, order the LCR 225. You know you wanna...

Spend the money you saved on the S3 on a Revo and associated bits and bobs and a big power hike !!!!

Veracocha

Personally I do prefer the back of the Cupra R to the S3 - but I think the S3 is more stylish overall.

Also I agree that the S3 is way overpriced compared to the competition now - my one was £24,000 and didnt even get a CD player. MY99-2000 S3's were £28,000! That is rediculous.

Simon S3

I bought my S3 before the Leon Cupra R was released.

If I were in the same position again I`d be saving myself loads of cash and driving the Seat.

The S3 is good, and I do like mine, but it really isn`t worth the extra cash over the Seat IMHO.

Grale

Many thanks for your views folks, i'm really struggling with this choice.

A nice, used, low mileage facelift S3 is gonna be best part of £17-18k which is the price of a new 225bhp Cupra R, but i must admit the overall look of the S3 is more appealing IMHO and in 'real world' driving situations there would be nothing between them performance wise, that said once i've driven both i reckon i'll fancy the Cupra R........Bloody cars !!!!!!!!!! wish i could get them out of my system !

Flat 4x4

If money matters there are several ex- Classic Impreza owners who have bought the 4x4 Octavia Turbo (self included). 12 month old 4x4 hatch or estate for around the £11k mark.

If you are still thinking 'but it's a Skoda' then fair enough spend your hard-earned on something else. I'm skint at the moment so all I've done to it was a Jabba custom remap including 25 rolling road runs which gave me 220bhp and 230lb/ft on normal unleaded. Several have 235bhp from their 4x4's and vRS's

When I'm not so skint, I'll pick up some used TT calipers, lower it and unless looks really matter, thats all you need to do.

A cut price S3 in my book.

day tripper

4x4 octavia's look too subtle and bit of an old man's car.

I bet your going to say replace interior and exterior with vrs parts.

1. never seen a vrs octavia for salvage
2. parts would be quite expensive
3. it still wouldnt be the factory high performance model
4. its only a part time 4x4
5. I have a octavia vrs!

ianc

Ah, what the hell....


4x4 octavia's look too subtle and bit of an old man's car.

Exactly, and plod leave us alone, and scooby owners are surprised..


I bet your going to say replace interior and exterior with vrs parts.

Why would I want to stick useless plastic on the outside, and downgrade my interior? (would I have to remove the extra toys I get too?)

1. never seen a vrs octavia for salvage

Nope, they're all in garages being polished.

2. parts would be quite expensive

See earlier point, why would I want them?

3. it still wouldnt be the factory high performance model

No, it's more expensive than that, but it is the only octavia with fully independant suspension.

4. its only a part time 4x4

Correct, 42mpg *and* 0-60 in 6.4 - and less transmission losses than (ahem) most 4x4 systems (jap cars in particular)

5. I have a octavia vrs!

Yup, in hairdresser yellow - lovely to look at, but gets all the attention we 4x4 owners like to avoid.

Ian (zipping up flame suit securely )





[Edited by ianc - 10/30/2003 9:45:44 AM]

MattN

remember also the resale value a 17k S3 will have taken the worst of it's depreciation but hte Leon will be new and suffer more dramitic losses.

Flat 4x4

...a good point. And a Jabba'd 4x4 with £2000 spent to prettify and beef the handling up will only cost you £11k for a low miles, year old one in the first place.

Cupramax

Is that why most of the ones I've seen for sale are still virtually at as new prices....?

juan

Looked briefly at both earlier this year.

Thought the Leon had the better looks. 4 doors too (does thinking thats a good thing mean I'm getting old?).

When you chuck the price in it became no contest for me.

Luckily though our company car scheme changed and was able to get one of the last Fiat 20vts secondhand instead.

day tripper

LOL Ian, what extra toys? Do you mean side airbags?

And how do you know my vrs is yellow!?

My banana mobile is the best octavia colour available!!!!!

Deal with it dude!

Are you tavia4x4?

ianc

ooh, side airbags, headlight washers, map lights, ESP, central armrest, electric glass sunroof, shall I go on?

Tavia4x4? Who's that then?

Ian.
(they corner better too )

[Edited by ianc - 10/31/2003 3:34:18 PM]

MattN

cupramax,

Because you're looking in the wrong places

If you really think a leon has as good as residuals as an S3 you have a lot to learn.

Chins

Love these threads.

For the post above, yes the Cupra R has residuals to die for at the moment. Have you tried buying one recently !!. I have and refused to pay such high prices. The numbers are small and demand is high.

I am a veteran of a couple of S3's and two Leon's, one an R, the other a Cupra. As Mr Peru mentioned the R32 I had one of those as well. But as a Fabia RS driver at the moment, I have no bias.

Doing it again, I have to say the S3 if found with the right spec at the right price would be my choice. The main reason being the AWD. There is an additional quality in the S3 over the Leon and infact R32.

They are all great cars. The R32 sounds the best, but cant be tuned easily. Yes AMD do a conversion (AMD did my Fabia), but it doesnt respond like the Turbo cars. In fact on the road my Fabia feels quicker in the mid range.

My guess is that I will have another Cupra R though. Just wish the new A3 had a real performance version.

Jonathan

Cupramax

I have a lot to learn...??? god, listen to you. If you read my post rather than getting on your high horse you would have noticed I said secondhand Leon Cupra R's I'd seen were going for virtually new price. Now pray tell when did I mention S3's in that statement????

Get a life.

jmk

Why get an S3 when there's a new A3 out - IMHO depreciation will be a significant issue in 3-6 months. Don't get the 3.2 version either if you like driving - Evo don't rate it at all, better off with a second hand 330i. Get the Seat (likely to be replaced with the Golf Mk5 chassis next year as well though) or even better buy a bugeye and save yourself thousands and get a better car to drive than any of the above ;-)

Simon S3

The lack of a credible performance version of the new A3 will keep S3 residuals quite reasonable for a while yet. Remember, the new S3/RS3 will not arrive until the end of 2004/2005 if at all.

Both the Cupra R and the S3 have residuals the WRX can only dream of.

I`m not going to turn this into a WRX v S3 v Cupra R thread because they`ve been done before and you really can`t compare the WRX to the Seat or Audi anyway.

However, I`d still go for a Seat Cupra R over an S3 and I`ve owned my S3 for just over a year.

day tripper

ESP? vrs's have it too dont they??

Headlight washers and map lights are for girls!

As for the central armrest i will not get into this!!.

And I HATE sunroofs!

I wouldnt say they handle better, Id say it depends who's driving

Ill see you on the road, like I saw the Knightrider!!!

Wskibuoy

May be stating the obvious but dont you buy a WRX 03 PPP would be the balance ur looking for I drove all the cars mentioned here and settled on the scoob

R1916v

Looks like he wants to spend about 17k, a new WRX with ppp is more than that.