GTI

Couple of weeks ago I recieved a book from Audi, its called "a history in progress" (big, hard back thing, very good it is too!) Anyway had a quick flick through, and today in one my very busy moments I was thinking about it.
Audi was the first car manufacturer to make constant 4WD in a car (well one which worked anyway). It was the first car manufacturer to do crash testing some time back in the 30's (I think).
First german car manufacturer to make RHD cars for the UK market.
And it was also the first manufacturer to make a aluminium production car.
So bit of a trend setter really? The quattro system is what Subaru is basically today. Aluminium cars, more economical and what Jaguar have just got the idea for the XJ from. (but a whole 9 years later than the original A8 back in 1994) Crash testing if you thought it was Volvo who started it all then you'd been wrong as I was.
All very impressive for a company which many still turn there nose up at because it hasn't got the image do you not agree?

[Edited by GTI - 6/25/2003 4:49:35 PM]

tiggers

Weren't they also the first mass production car company to look seriously at the aerodynamics of ancillary equipment such as windows and headlights via wind tunnel technology even before F1 was using wind tunnels etc.

I seem to remember the early 80's Audi 100 having a very low coefficient of drag for the time.

Regards,

tiggers.

Nick_TypeUK

They forget Jensen sold a permant 4wd road car in the 60s

Audi are unfortunatly living on past glorys, the ur quatty and sport quatty where glourious cars, but quattro died after the RS2 and took a huge step backwards from then on.

now quattro consists of the bulletproof but heavy and out dated torsen diff with open planetry front a rear diffs which use the ABS to simulate proper diffs!!

They have even abandoned the spirit of quattro now droping the turbo for a V8 in there ever lasting battle of one upmanship against BMW (why not just concentrate on being a unique brand?)

There mechanical reliability is at best poor and there customer service a joke, and dont mention the RS4 grrr

Audi IMHO are now a company run by accountants with all the passion of a tin of baked beans living of the past glorys

(oh lets milk the fact we won LeMan 3 times in a row when we where the only cars in class )

cletterridge

No chance!

In recent years, it's got to be either Honda or Toyota. Both have manufactured for testing / are already selling to the public hybrid electric vehicles, compressed natural gas (recharge from your home gas!) vehicles, electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Have Audi done any of that? And the 1994 Aluminium A8 - HELLO! 1990 Honda NSX! OK, the Audi 80 was the first mainstream production car to crack a CD of 0.30, but look at the Toyota Prius (0.26) or the Honda Insight (0.25).

Going back slightly farther and Audi can't hold a torch to Citroen, who have time and again been the first to bring revolutionary technology to the road. The DS, for example, was probably 20 years ahead of its time.

OK, I think the A2 3l is great (see here for details: http://www.benerridge.freeserve.co.uk/a2.htm), but Audi really aren't at the cutting edge at the moment.

screechmr2

i read somewhere that an aluminium car was out before the nsx as well, can't remember what yet, i'll have a look.

CrisPDuk

Up until the DB7, all Aston Martins were aluminium bodied

As previously mentioned, Jensen were building a 4WD car in the mid sixties using FFD transmissions, evolutions of the same set-up were used later by Ford in the XR4x4, Sapphire Cosworth & Escort Cosworth.

The only reason Audi won at Le-Mans was because Porsche withdrew from GT racing to concentrate on the Cayenne.

RS Grant

I'm pretty sure that Audi were first to make Permanent 4WD work reliably in a Road Car...

IIRC the Jenson Interceptor 4WD system was very unreliable??

Cheers,
Grant

J4MES

Its all spin!

What about Saab? They were designing cars with mega low drag co-efficients, based on their knowledge of aeroplane design and manufacture, back in the 1950's and 1960's.

The original Sport Quattro is one of the greatest cars ever made though. No arguing with that.

Pumpkin

Aston Martins which had Superleggera construction, as per Lancia Flaminia Tourings and Zagatos, were made of aluminium clothes over a steel substructure. They weren't completely aluminium.

AllanB

We should all thank Fiat for bringing the twin cam engine to the masses and fitting allround disk brakes on cars of relatively low cost.


AllanB

brickboy

What about Citroen? The traction avant, DS etc ... not an accolade that could be levelled at Ford

tonybooth

Well I have got an Audi S3. I think its ace so there

Tony

what would scooby do

Triumph huh - Fuel injection, 4 valves per cynlinder

still crap and went bust - just as VW/Audi are going to be this year..

RobinSherwood

IMHO it wasn't the 4wd system that was troublesome on the Jensen FF, the troublesome bit was the Dunlop Maxaret(?) anti lock braking system, which was a mechanical ABS and another first for this car.

I imagine as with any other Interceptor derivative they suffered with various electrical gremlins ( I speak with experience of an Interceptor II) but still a great car and I will hopefully have another one day.

Robin

BigJim

Haven't Land Rovers been aluminium since 1948?

RS Grant

I very much doubt it... VW own Audi by the way, so its not VW/Audi, its just VW. They own a LOAD more car marques as well so I dont see them being in financial trouble. But we will see.

Cheers,
Grant

GTI

Yep very much doubt VW will go bust with:
Lambo
Bentley
Audi
Skoda
Seat
Bugatti all under their belt!
Hope not anyway!

D Brown

I think this might have came from a story regarding VW parent company (VAG) ownership. This may all be bollix but AFAIK, VAG has a majority shareholder of the local district (Lower Saxony?) who's prime reason for owning a good %age of VAG is to keep thousands of Lower Saxonburgers in employment, rather than make loads of profit. New EU rules mean that they can't maintain that shareholding, so will need to sell to some other private corporation or investment institute, who quite rightly will demand the normal things of business like profits, equity growth etc. This means that VAG will need to drastically change their way of running a business which might not be possible, hence putting them on shaky ground fianancially. Going bust? probably not, but they could be ripe for a take-over by one of the healthy German car makers......?

Anyway, point of the thread - it's got to be Daimler-Benz, they invented the automobile after all!

mkyboy

What about the TT?

One of the best looking coupes in the last 20 - 30 years IMHO and now with the new twin clutch gearbox. The A2 ,RS6 ,A8 etc. Audi are a forward thinking company (IMHO) who are making cool, well built cars for the masses!

(even though i can't afford an RS6!)

MGJohn

What about the TT?

One of the worst looking coupes of the last 20-30 years IMHO ...

Something not quite right - that's it! Has an unbalanced look about it! So, a nearly good looking car ... again IMHO.

BTW, back in 1960, the second car I ever bought was a Sunbeam Talbot 4 door saloon. These were made before and after the war in both saloon and 2 door tourer versions. My father had one of the latter soft-top tourers which was great fun in the relatively post war depressed 1950s Britain. The saloon I had was an elegant little car with an Aluminium body IIRC. Nowt really NEW is there ...

Nick_TypeUK

Audi do not make well built cars, they make very badly built cars both my S4 and RS4 has reams of mechanical failuers, the RS4 had mechanical faults on it from delivery that where still not fixed 18months later.

18 months into scooby ownership and the cars been back to the dealer once for its annual service.

what would scooby do

My reference to VW going bust was that they had a massive gap in future product lines, and a 6 year development cycle (IIRC)

The current cars just aren't selling enough to generate revenue to finance next generation - it was in the Times or Telegraph - they called it VW's death spiral.. also in same article it gabbed on about Fiat and their chances of survival.

If I can find the article I'll pop it up here..

GTI

Mkyboy that is very true the RS6 and new S4 are my two favourite cars.
Also I think you must be very unlucky and rare to get two, cars with problems - I personally think they are fantastically built as do many other people, including friends and family. I also think such cars as the 3-series and C-class do not feel anyway near as well built. The c-class's interior would not look out of place in a Focus, IMO.
And I agree the TT is got to be the best looking coupe in the world for that sorta price and its even nicer with the 3.2!
Yes defintley a forward thinking company, without finacial problems, they are not stupid they bring out RS models towards the end of models life span so to boost sales of lesser models look at the RS2/4/6, all great reinventions. As clarkson said (i think it was clarkson) Audi are the king or reinvention.

GTI

How the hell can't they be selling enough VW's they've sold 21 million GTI's alone at a average price of £14,500!

I think VAG are simply the best all round company for basically everyone: (they've got it covered)

Skoda: well made, decent looking, great cars at a even greater price!
Seat: young sporty and low cost again, covering bases which are often covered by such likes of Renault, Pug, Citroen!
VW: young, old, middle aged you name it theres something there! (if not the most involving, which should change with a 1.8T Polo and the new Golf which is being devolped by Fords chassis man, responsable for the Focus)
Audi: Unique in its thinking, forward thinking, snobless (unless you think A3 - Leon etc) but compared to BMW, Merc. Stunningly beautiful, amazing build, well priced. The best all rounder.
Bentley: Sexy, fashionable, fast, british (well you know what I mean) powerful.
Lambo: Just look at them!
Bugatti: Earn as much as Bill Gates and I think you can afford one!

Seems to me they won't have many problems, they offer something to everyone!

chrisp

Twice if you count the 1000 mile oil change ?