S600HBY

Just been reading my autoexpress this morning and ford have been given the green light on a fiesta RS and a mondeo RS. Fiesta to be out mid 2004 and based on the rally concept and around 15k. Looks like ford are back lets hope for the cosworth versions soon.

chrispy200+

iTrader: (2)

should be good, if the fiesta looks the same as the rally concept and goes as well as it looks then i think Ford will do well reviving the RS range, as you say though will be good if the osworth name comes back

UHF

A 2litre turbo fiesta could be fun, but if its anything like my old 1.6 turbo was then they'll have to do something about traction

chrispy200+

iTrader: (2)

looking at the concept it has quite a wide track and the chassis has got to be better than the Fiesta Rst was, lethal is one way i had heard it described, only ever been out in one Frst

UHF

yes very lethal, getting out of turnings on a wet road was easier in a 1.1 fiesta, you had to leave lots of room or be VERY careful with the clutch which sometimes felt like it had 2 modes, ON and OFF!

S600HBY

Not sure sure about the 2ltr maybe 1600 turbo they dont want to tread on the toes of the focus with the weight advantage,and maybe they will use the diff from the focus rs to aid traction. Nice to see ford back in the performance segment

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Ive heard that it will be a 2ltr but an N/A one, using the same engine as in the ST170 focus.

Tony

UHF

they should keep consistent, its not a RS without a turbo tho, the words RS Turbo strike fear into those who like thier tyres, and put pound signs in those who own tyre shops

UHF

Sure there are NON Turbo RS's but the more recent ones have been crap, RS1800 (waste of space), Escort RS2000 (60 in 8 seconds), think of RS and you think escort rs cosworth, fiesta rs turbo, focus rs turbo!

Little Miss WRX

I saw the rally concept of the Fiesta at the Motorshow and it is an attractive looking radical design.

I hope Ford keep in line with the concept version and don't make it "feminine".

Mega

RS 1800 not bad, i owned one for 4 years, out gunned but very good on the bends. RS will be a ST170+Recaro job. Ford don't have the cash for a Turbo motor........they lose BIG money on every RS Focus. I will keep my Honda CTR
Mega.

FASTER MIKE!!

i had a fRSt as said above traction in the wet was cr@p, but in the dry was`nt too bad. gave a scoob a hard time up to about 125mph from about 70mph when i had mine. great little cars

mike who now has a scoob

UHF

You gave a scooby trouble up to 125? what kinda boost was you running dude, my car overboosted to 15psi in the last month I had it and even then I couldnt get anywhere near a scooby, these cars run a 15second+ 1/4 mile! It was total crap compared to my scooby!

capriFRSTmania

Quote Jonmorris:
'RS doesn't mean turbo.. Lots of RS cars have been made without them.'

Agreed

'It's true that Ford will have to make sure the Fiesta RS isn't able to outperform the Focus (or Mondeo) because of it's obvious weight advantage. Thus, it will be toned down accordingly. Blame those damn marketing guys who look at the bigger picture and don't care if it means releasing a car that isn't everything it could have been. (This applies for all big car makers these days).'

True, but don't forget back in the day, the Escort RS Turbo was beaten in a 0-60 sprint by the Fiesta RS Turbo, unless i'm much mistaken. Who knows, if they released an even quicker car then, they may do it now! Having said that, modern times are different to the 80's, marketing and PR is so much more evident in the car industry nowadays

Here's hoping, whatever they do, they make a good successor to the RS Turbo. Some ppl may say it's a death trap, but tbh I know plenty of ppl who own them and they're still alive, plus they're much better all-round than any other turbo'd small hatch than I can think of IMO.

jonmorris

Can we have some evidence to back up the claim that Ford lose on every single Focus RS?

They did lose a load on the Racing Puma but it's clear to see why that happened. The Focus RS is NOT losing money.

In fact, Ford are allocating an extra 250 RHD cars for the UK market as demand has been so high (well, it's sold out already). Whether this is actually an additional production run, or a simple process of switching the production of the next 250 cars from LHD to RHD is unclear at the moment.

Mega

70 % of the parts are in some way differant to stock parts. You need to make ten of thousands of cars to make up the cost differance. Limted numbers mean they will lose on each car.

Mega.

Carlos The Jackel

UHF of the mark a FRST wouldn't stand a chance against a Scoob but my FRST was running 14psi and once on the move would be very very close to a classic shape scoob. As for torque steer etc. my car was set up by AVA and was transformed by the chip into a brilliant car - The 15" alloys made a big difference to grip and handling. Im not sure why these cars get such bad press - I now own a Clio Williams and I stiil miss my FRST. I have driven a Scoob BTW on a few occasions. £ for £ my FRST was the most fun car i've owned. It was hard work - heavy steering & no suspension! Im now too old for all that - I need PAS

jonmorris

They will not lose. 4500 cars, plus probably nearly the same in parts is not that small a run.

The parts aren't going to differ that much and may well be available from other Ford, Jaguar, Mazda parts bins - or the WRC development teams etc.. In any case, competitive tendering will knock down prices. Production is the killer cost and making the car on the standard production line will save most money.

If Ford sold every single car in the UK as a RHD model then they would make almost £90m, obviously you then take out the dealers margin, delivery costs, OTR costs and the production costs. How much money is left and what is the total profit? A standard Focus starts at £10k, so there is quite a lot of extra money to be had from the £10k premium.

I'm convinced there will be some profit this time, even if there wasn't with the Puma (only around 500 made and grossly overbudget from day one). The Escort Cosworth was another problem but that was primarily down to the sky high insurance that killed the car stone dead. However, as they HAD to make X amount to race them I guess this was partly written off by the WRC/Motorsport division.

[Edited by jonmorris - 3/15/2003 4:11:42 AM]

Mega

I was at Halwood this week(JAG), they lose on each car. They are also rather worried that the thing will try to leave the road and cause a "High level" RTA. Its too little , too late, the Japs have them now. CTR or Scooby or EVO or ZED 350.

Next years sees Nissan Hot Mica, and a host of better, hotter cars.

Lack of cash will cost them as everyone else hot hardware outguns them. VERY worried Company.

Mega.

jonmorris

Why would they be increasing production then? The more they make, the more they lose.

Mega

What Ford are worried about is if they plan say a 9,000 car run than yes that would get them into profit. However is say MGR came along with a ZR V6 or Seat or Honda OR whatever and their RS gets "Evoed" than they are left with a load of cars they can't shift.

They would have to give big discounts on them and lose a hell of a lot more money. Yes doing a smaller run means a loss but its a controled loss and they get (in their dreams)a "Halo" affect on the rest of the Forcus kit.
Mega

jonmorris

The RS brand MUST be limited to retain the status that Ford want to create (which does of course work to sell the mainstream models). No car maker builds a production car for any other purpose. Indeed few, if any, will race cars for any other reason than to promote/sell their normal cars.

If you combined R&D, production AND ADVERTISING of the Focus RS throughout Europe, then the total project may be at a loss. However, the "It's back" campaign wasn't designed to sell the RS (they were virtually all sold out before the national banner campaign began) but to build up the Focus name. Money well spent.

What with it being totally sold out and being named Top Gear Car of the Year, I think Ford are riding high at the moment. A few negative reviews for sure, but generally speaking the Focus RS is being raved about and is respected by people who would never actually BUY one.

Finally, if the car was dangerous it would not have been released. Do you think Ford are crazy? They've been in and out of court enough recently I think..

To quote someone else on another forum;

"I never drive my RS because it is very dangerous to drive. I reverse it out of the garage and then sit in it for a couple of hours whilst making "broom broom" noises then I get a professional race car driver to drive it back into the garage at the end of the day. In the latest edition of CAR magazine their is a write up on the new GT3 from Porsche and at the end of the review the guy states that he thinks the car is dangerous and may not be for every one (so is it only me that thinks there is a virus going around that makes people become incapable of driving performance cars)? You would really have to be a complete lemon to lose control of the RS but if people want to create stories that it is a hardcore car that's frisky to drive and that it would need a God or an immortal at the steering wheel then I'm ok with that."

RS-Buzz

Low volume does not equate to high production costs as they use "Soft tooling" which has been engineered for the amount of cars estimated. Soft tooling is about the tenth of normal tooling costs but poses a problem when the run is extended or in the future for replacements parts etc.
The std Puma was going to be limited in 97 to 1500. Due to the demand it became high volume, but all of the tools were knackered and had to be re engineered, hence minor changes in 97 cars to 98.5 onwards.
FMC stated that they cannot mass produce the RS without major reinvestment into tooling. Even by absorbing the extra soft tooling costs into each of the 5000 RS' there is still plenty of margin on each car.

S600HBY

yes tony but isnt that for the st150 unless of course they use the engine in the focus in a de tuned form for the RS

[Edited by S600HBY - 3/12/2003 7:02:57 PM]

jonmorris

RS doesn't mean turbo.. Lots of RS cars have been made without them.

It's true that Ford will have to make sure the Fiesta RS isn't able to outperform the Focus (or Mondeo) because of it's obvious weight advantage. Thus, it will be toned down accordingly. Blame those damn marketing guys who look at the bigger picture and don't care if it means releasing a car that isn't everything it could have been. (This applies for all big car makers these days).

The important thing will be - how much can it be tuned up afterwards?

The Fiesta RS Turbo was a bit of a death trap but some people loved it more than anything else, including Cossies (not 100% sure why, but I never owned one so may be missing something).

If anything, being toned down will make modifications even easier - so it may well appeal to an even bigger market than the Focus.

[Edited by jonmorris - 3/12/2003 10:47:27 PM]