Boss Hogg

Matt - ignore the usual scoobynet knockers - but you need to do a fair bit of research. Before you do anything you need to decide what form of motorsport you want to do - or even what type or series of rallying. A good beginners 'rally' id the 205 challenge - you can use 205s with 1.6 or 1.9 engines, and comparitavely few mods. However don't think you can flog your saxo and use your rally spec car for everyday commuting etc - it just isn't practical or comfortable.

The first thing you need to do is contact the MSA and get their 'go racing' pack - this lists the procedure for getting your competiton license. Again you need to roughly decide what you want to do as there are different categories of license.

PS - you mention drifting - you don't need a rally car or any kind of license for that - see this month's issue of retro car for a feature on drifting....

[Edited by Boss Hogg - 12/2/2003 2:10:43 PM]

matt85

right..

instead of buying a new car im starting to look at the possibility of maybe buying a rally-car for some sideways fun and eventually maybe getting competitive.

probs gonna sell my saxo for maybe a 306 s16 or somet looking at spending maybe 5-7k

has anyone else done this? i have a little experience of driving them but im not sure at all about what licenses, safety features you need and what running costs are like etc. i can afford car but running costs maybe a bit high on current fininaces but on the plus side my dad said hed contribute for a bit of the action.

what do you reckon? anyone with any experience, opinions and advice would be appreciated...

thanks

Zeolite

You don't sound like you are ready for a rally car. Do you know what type of events you want to do? Where you want to do them? How much they cost? Do you have the backup required? (trailer, towcar, garage, technical knowledge)
Most importantly are you a member of a Motor Sports Club or do you know where to join?

Find the answer to these questions before you go any further.

TVR Gary

Matt,

I have a feeling that full blown rallying sint for you as the other guy implied.
I am going through the same sort of thought process as you are at the moment. I have the car, 205GTi, have modded it (stripped, safety devices cage fitted, buckets, harnesses etc etc) its now just a matter of what im going to do with it. Going to start out next year with a couple of trips to nurburgring, then hopefully get a comp license, join a club and try my hand at hill climbing.

I would have liked to have tried rallying but without the PROPER backing or the technical knowledge its a recipe for disaster in my mind. Hill climbing will give me the same buzz but with a much smaller chance of technical problems or totalling the car.
Have a think about that or maybe sprint racing.

grovesy

Your gonna sell a Saxo to buy a Rally car.

If i were you I would get a BMX ease you into the differnce in power

Yu gotta crawl before you can walk

matt85

like i said in the initial post im LOOKING AT THE POSSIBILITY of geeting something for rallying- not going out to spend 7k on the first thing i see because its burning a hole in my pocket. thanks for all the CONSTRUTIVE comments guys its definately useful.

and.. in reference to the comment about getting a BMX to be faster than the saxo, a turbocharged vtr is not exactly slow in anyone except michael schumachers book and in all likelihood the car id buy wouldnt be as quick anyway, just a lot more fun

i apprecite the running costs can be huge but i just want something cheap to nail about a bit before i start a job on (hopefully) considerably more money, so i could get a little more serious if i wanted.

i have contacted the msa about the start-up pack so ill take it from here. anyone else with something VALID to say i would be very grateful to hear from you on this subject.

thanks

matt

Dream Weaver

My uncle used to do rallys around where I live.

I have some good memories of it, but looking back dont know how it worked. They used normal roads, and they often appeared to still be open to the public, but it was all properly timed, and had a "camp" where they all started from with big tents, mechanics etc.

Was great fun - he had a Chevette with RS2000 engine in it.

LG John

Turbo'd...hmmmmm rare Most saxo's find there way to be s/c'd. I think you need to be sure in your mind of the maths on this one before you do it. Sounds to me like it could be a very expensive weekend hobby

David_Dickson

Dream-Weaver, that may well have been Navigation Rallys.
iirc, they are run on open roads, you are given a start and destination point and have to calculate EXACTLY how long it should take to do the route without going over the speed-limit, you then have to drive the route and finish as close as possible to that time. If you are below the timne, you obviously broke the speed-limit somewhere and are penalised. In practice, you cant do exactly 60mph everywhere on wee roads so have to take the twisties as fast as you are able, then "make up some time" on the straighter sections so you arrive as close to your target time as you can.

Olly

Matt,

Yes you should . I bought my first rally car aged 19, a Group N Nova.

But essential items will be needed:

1/ A competition licence.
2/ Membership of your local MSA approved motor club.
3/ Approved helmet and overalls. ( I never bothered with poncy booties or gloves. Racing boots look pretty, but are useless for pushing a rally car out of a sh1tty hole).
4/ A rally car. Aim low, choose something reliable, easy to work on, easy to drive, cheap and strong. My vote: a challenge spec 205 or Nova, both of which can still be competitive in correct hands. Spend no more than £3k on your first car: you WILL stuff it in the first year.
5/ Ownership or access to a decent car trailer. I borrowed a trailer for 2 years, bought my own for £500 after that. This is essential for carting home a wrecked rally car.
6/ A tow vehicle. I was lucky here, the family business owns a couple of Transits.
7/ Spare cash. Aged 19 I was fortunate enough to be earning reasonable money, but with ZERO commitments to anything else (no house, mortgage, loans, mobile phone, road car, etc etc). For 4 years I spent virtually every penny of my disposable income (ie entire salary) on rallying.
8/ An enthusiastic father. Again I was lucky: my Old Boy was always just as keen for me to get into a rally car as I was. His invaluable input came in the form of preparation help, loan of his Transit, payment for diesel and overnight digs, and unabound enthusiasm.
9/ Good mechanical knowledge. Good knowledge of the car brings mechanical sympathy, which in turn brings a longer days rallying. Rally cars need careful preparation EVERY time out: in brief we used to pressure wash, check shell for damage, remove ALL suspension, strip, check and grease. Replace balljoints, check/change pads, change oil & filters, check tracking etc etc.
10/ A good garage and set of tools to perform the above.
11/ Good mates. I had help from a variety of mates, but fellow Scoobynetter CrisPDuk never missed a single event, and offered help in the form of giving up endless week nights and weekends in the garage helping to prep the car, countless weekends to come and crawl in the **** underneath a wet rally car and fill his road car full of tyres and oily bits to perform chase car duties. Mainly at his own cost. All this for the thick end of 5 years. He was forced to get married when I stopped rallying
12/ A co-driver. Find someone who has done a few events to begin with. Your first event is daunting, so someone who knows the ropes and can calm you down is important. Go to the motor club and speak to people, they don’t bite.
13/ Access to a road car. No bull, my first Nova really WAS my road car and rally car in one for 2 years. Barring damage, the car would be backed off the trailer on Saturday evening after a BTRDA forest event, washed on Sunday, numbers removed, and driven to work on Monday. If it was a Sunday event, the car would go to work still dirty. Prep started 2 weeks before an event, a week to prepare, and a week down the lanes shaking down. You will need a road car for the times when the car is off the road.

These are the basics. Don’t let it put you off. But remember that rallying is full of ups and downs. Winning your first trophy is something that will never EVER leave you. Neither is the first time you dive into the trees. Or roll. Or end up unconscious in the drivers seat, unable to breathe. Or spend another weekend in a cold garage. Or look at another red bank statement. Or take your first class win.

Prepare to be deluded: you may thing you can drive, until you see the times on your first event. We were immediately competitive at single venue level and won the 1600 class on our 2nd event, but we were slow on our first BTRDA forest outing, which eventually ended in the trees. It took me 2 seasons and around 20 events before we could finally be considered as potential class winners at the start of an event.

I don’t compete now, (decided to get a life ) but still miss it.

matt85

thanks for that, especially to olly- thanks for taking the trouble to write all that.

TVR Gary

Great words Olly, a good read and shows the difference between track day use and doing full on competition work.

Dream Weaver

David, they were full on full speed rallys with Lotus Sunbeams etc. A guy called Ken Skidmore used to be involved with it.

Maybe the roads were closed, and its just my imagination about them being open - it was about 20 years back

Guess I should ask my uncle really.

cookiemonster

check out

http://www.205challenge.com/

I bought myself a 205 race car (basically the same as tarmac spec challenge car) for track days & circut racing a couple of years ago. I've learned a lot since then...

Racing (and i guess rallying) is to track days, what track days are to driving on the road; dont underestimate the jump. That said there's some good advice above (and some bollox ). I know a couple of folk who've used a track / rally car as an everyday drive (especially the old road saloon series cars which must be road legal), but it takes a special form of dedication...

Realistically you need an everyday drive & trailer. Dont worry too much about mechanical competance - thats something you'll learn £2500 gets you a nice prep'd 205 to get started, and although i dont want to start an arguement regarding speed, my little 205 1.6 goes round castle combe in 1:23 on 15" road rubber and was quicker round Brands at my last track day than any of the saloon / sports stuff. Basically the cars are very light (mine weighs in at 760kg) and you're happy to give 110% as its not your road car.

The interesting thing is that you find that getting 100% out of a car is very very difficult, its much easier to upgrade the hardware with more power, slicks, etc than the software - learning to drive better

TopBanana

Well sorted and class-winning Saxo rally car for sale here:
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadID=270029

LG John

Great post Olly, a real eye-opener

dome

I'd suggest staring off with road rallying, autotesting and perhaps the odd sprint to start with. A rallycar would be OK for this apart from road rallying, check the regulations with your local organisers.

Join your local car club and see what they organise and also go along and marshall at events if you get the chance, this'll give you a feel for what's involved.

mikelmr

Like a few have said ... join a club, go out and marshal and get to know those in your club and more importantly see what rallying is really about ... cars can vary wildy depending what you want ... from standard production classes through to one off specials.
The main thing to note though is buy a car you can afford to write off and somthing YOU can fix.
Having a rally car as daily transport is not advisable either. They tend to get the wrong kind of attention plus its a total p1sser when you break the car and have to try and fix it in time to get to work on Monday !
You don't need a flash car to have fun rallying ... infact the cheaper cars are usually more fun as you can worry about them a bit less.

Mike 'Last Minute' Rallying