scoobynutta555

any1 care to enlighten me as to what happened on the meet that caused all hoo haa about cruises/convoys at scooby meets?

If u like, mail me instead of posting, i not plod or anything, honest!

banshi

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chris Clayton:
<B>I organised it and even I dont know.

The best I can find out is that "members of
the public" complained about subaru's being
driven in a "manner having total disregard
for the speed limits".
Where this happened or when I havn't been
able to ascertain.

Cheers

Chris[/quote]

Absolutely m8, wild speculation and numerous contradictions. No attempt to ascertain any facts before they rolled the bandwaggon out, couldn't even get the dates and locations correct

CU at Elvington

Chris Clayton

I organised it and even I dont know.

The best I can find out is that "members of
the public" complained about subaru's being
driven in a "manner having total disregard
for the speed limits".
Where this happened or when I havn't been
able to ascertain.

Cheers

Chris

RichiW

yeah, seems like a bomb`s been ticking for awhile, and the York run simply shortened the timer.

jaycee

I've posted my thoughts on the thread in "General questions" but the long and short of it is this

It (allegedly) involved between 1 and 20 cars (there are conflicting figures floating around)driving at excessive speed,nearly causing an accident with a group of cyclists.

Bollox!

Nobody has any hard facts to back up any of the claims made and I suspect the cyclists objected to us using "their" road with our noisy, enviromentally unfriendly, japanese automobiles.

And???
We pay road tax, insurance etc. and have every right to go for a drive together, if they don't like it ... it's tough. So long as we observe others rights to be on the road in safety.

If somebody did do something dangerous then that is a different matter but it is all well and good everyone been holier than thou.
Show me a Scooby driver that hasn't done something they shouldn't have in their car.

Hmmmm. Thought so.

Jason

CRAFT

Flame suit at the ready! It seems to me that all the shouting is coming from the SIDC corner, maybe they are getting e-mails from annoyed road users about people driving excessive speeds on these runs, but what is classed as excessive? Overtaking cars doing 50 in a national speed limit, driving at speed past walkers/cyclists, I mean what speed is deemed sensible. Fair enough in the concern of safety on these runs for other road users and even the participants, but again we seem to be an easy target, yet again

Also, if people are driving at excessive speeds why don't the witnesses phone the police with the offenders reg no. and they'll get in touch with them, explaining why they have called, instead of getting in touch with the club, and then in turn the club having a bitch on the BBS, about the SIDC being looked upon in a bad light!

I have previously organised runs, and never had any problems about reckless speeds/driving, although I had an allegation on the last run I did of someone doing 130mph, and after some of my own investigation...1) there was nowhere on the route you could 130mph...2) what a load of bollox.

Taking your car on track is 1 of the possibilities, but at £100+ a pop, it's not for me! I can find better ways to spend the money on, not to mention f*#ckin up your tyres and brakes in the process. I'm just glad the SIDC don't organise these meets, as you'd probably have to pay for the pleasure IMHO!!!

CRAFT

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Having gotten involved defending a friend on a recent meeting it seems that the webmaster and certain other people need to think a little before spouting off unconfirmed factual heresay.....I find it hard to believe sometimes that these same loose mouthed people own and run successful businesses and have obvious ability in creating such a community yet use none of that inteligence when really needed. I and many other people are somewhat sick and tired at the stance that seems to be being taken on what seems an all to regular basis. Barry, maybe the time is right to spread our wings and get some heads together.
Chris and Julie, whilst I've never met you I can understand how dissapointing and hurt you must feel, dont let any of this dissuade you from arranging what I can only believe to be an excellent relaxing event for all concerned.

Ian E

iTrader: (1)

I've been on several of the Northern area runs:-

Dales Trip 1
Northern Meet 5
Lakes Camping Trip 1
Lakes Route Again (on the motorbike)
Northern Meet 6

All have been organised superbly (cheers Craft / MTR / Mellow Yellow). Driving overall has been to a very high standard on each run.

I agree it would be nice to know exactly what happened on the York run - i.e. who complained?, was a formal complaint logged to the police?, how was it brought to ScoobyNets attention?, etc.

See ya all at Dales Trip 3

Cheers,

Ian.

Otis

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by jaycee:
<B>

Nobody has any hard facts to back up any of the claims made and I suspect the cyclists objected to us using "their" road with our noisy, enviromentally unfriendly, japanese automobiles.


[/quote]

I must admit I smell a rat here. All except for one occasion (gravel rashed by the Evo nutter) the driving I saw was fine and there was NEVER a convoy of 20 cars......FACT. I think everybody should wind their necks in until the actual events are properly identified. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Classic Scoobynet "community" situation where everyone dashes for the moral high ground while there is still some space up there.

Otis.

RichiW

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Otis:
<B> .....gravel rashed by the Evo nutter.....
[/quote]

Yeah, i saw your post on the other thread, i`m sure Timo wouldnt mean to gravel rash your car
I spoke at great length with him reguarding the Evo V Scooby debate, and all he had to say was at the end of the day, theres no great performance difference between the two, and it was simply a case of do you want a Scooby or do you want an Evo ..he test drove both and went for the Evo, nuff said.

I dont believe for one minute he had a chip on his shoulder, or a point to prove for that matter, in fact he even said that the Type R he test drove was an absolute animal!

I am in no doubt that if you ever was to meet him again then he would appologise for any stress that the incident might have caused you, after all, we are all car fanatics after the same thing......the greatest amount of enjoyment out of our cars possible!

( and just for the record, i had quite a large amount of debris throw up at my car, but given the state of the roads, it was hardly a surprise......sand dunes anyone???:eek

banshi

Craft, hold on m8. Your sights are on the wrong target. SIDC aren't perfect but all they have done is to pass on information sent to them!

I'm happy to be corrected but as I recall their only comment was that if such meets were organised under their auspices certain rules applied. A clear statement was provided but no judgement was made.

The emotive ".. patentially lethal...only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt..... endangering our friends, and members of the public.....bringing a bad name to Scooby drivers". And the subsequent bandwaggon, was developed much nearer home and quickly followed by a spurious discussion on the issue of Public Liability.

I like Chris have been given details of the complaint. In my opinion it's riddled with holes but I believe that a damage limitation policy has been adopted and the matter is likely to go no further due to the action of members of the SIDC committee.

B

GaryC

Before slagging him off, please bear in mind the enormous amount of time Simon (webmaster) donates to 'us' to give 'us' one of the best BBSs around, and still does it free of charge to users.

Simon (and the rest of us) don't need the bad press/hassle/stress etc. At some point he will just declare **** it and close scoobynet None of us want that.

All Simon was asking was that we act responsibly when on these meets. I have been on and organised many Subaru meets, and there have never been any particular problems. But that doesn't mean they can't (and haven't) happened.

I have noticed overall driving standards of our beloved Impreza Turbos getting worse over the 3 year I have been a part of the community (obvious really given that they are constantly getting cheaper, and can now be had for cheap hot hatch money). Each driver is responsible for his actions on the road, and judges how he/she should behave....and has to suffer any consequences accordingly. But when that/any poor road behaviour is conducted (incorrectly) under the Scoobynet or SIDC name, the repercussions will go beyond the driver(s) in question.

Drive as you want to drive when on your own. The request was simply to be sensible and sympathetic when your driving actions are linked to Scoobynet/SIDC

Gary

Chris Clayton

hi - i've posted this on the thread in
General questions as well.

Thanks to all who have supported the meet
and the way it was organised.
Julie and myself will definately be about to
organise more - perhaps with a few more
guide lines with the notes - but everyone
followed common sense anyway.

============================

I have learnt a few more facts about the
incident in question and all I can say is
that it is not a question of a single individual but more of a perception from a
group of cyclists.
Now it is probably true that 15-20 Impreza's going past at 70 mph with noisy exhausts
is going to be intimidating to cyclists at
the side of the road. I can remember the
cyclists as I passed and at no time did
I feel that we were endangering them. Again
its a concept of perception - the cyclists
thought we were going too fast (all 20 of us) and we thought we were driving at a
reasonable speed. If I am able to post the
e-mail received by SIDC from the cyclist I
will, but at the moment I don't know if that
is possible.
I suppose all of this has hightened the possibilities of what might happen etc etc
but as far as I know everyone on the meet
slowed down when they saw any hazards. I
was in one of the last groups on the run out
to Helmsley and we passed 2 groups of horses
and everyone slowed down and crawled past on
the opposite side of the road, getting a
friendly acknowledgement wave from the riders. If the previous 15 cars had blasted
past them I doubt we would have got such a
response.

========================

Banshi, Mellow Yellow and any others,

See you at Elvington on Saturday - we can
have a chat all about it there.


Regards

Chris & Julie




[This message has been edited by Chris Clayton (edited 12 October 2001).]

CRAFT

Banshi, as I said in my post, that was my opinion!

CRAFT

Timspeed

"quote"
HOWEVER, on this occassion we had a visitor with a point to prove, came past me at one point well over 100mph semi-airbourne (thanks for the gravel rash mate - the bill is in the post) and I do not doubt for a minute that he fits into the frame somewhere with the incident in question. He shouldn't be allowed on any more and the handful he 'bated' need a slap.
"quote"
I must admit I smell a rat here. All except for one occasion (gravel rashed by the Evo nutter) the driving I saw was fine and there was NEVER a convoy of 20 cars......FACT. I think everybody should wind their necks in until the actual events are properly identified. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Classic Scoobynet "community" situation where everyone dashes for the moral high ground while there is still some space up there.

Ok ......Otis I think your point is made.I apologize for any gravel rash you got.
Certainly not intended.
Why do you think I had a Point to prove ?
But just got to say I have spend this morning touching up gravel rash from last sunday so everybody was throwing stones,do you seen me complaining ????? in my opinion it is part of the joys of owning and joining in with other performance cars.

But I take exception to Being called a Nutter i think that is taking it too far, IF and I say IF I passed you at well over 100mph then you too must have been in excess of 90 mph ,And why should I be singled out to be in the frame for the incident?
Sounds to me like everybody is being accused.
Did you stop at the cafe at the finish ? If yes, why did you not come and air your grievance face to face ???? I was not hiding from anybody in fact as RichiW (thanks mate)says we had a long discussion regarding the Evo/Scooby debate amongst many other things.
Maybe your one of these who would prefer to cruise round on totally car free roads so you can hog the road at whatever speed you might choose ,take your own line,and then complain when someone who does'nt conform to your ideal view uses the same road.

For your information I am a PROFESSIONAL Automotive Development Engineer I know the limits of my car, I know the limits of my driving ability and I also know the limits of other road users as well as the hazards of modern highway use, which does incidentally include loose gravel !!

Any way enough said, Suggest you stick to motorways from now on, not a lot of loose gravel on there !!!!!!!

From Yvonne (Tim's other half...)
I certainly object to Tim being referred to as 'a Nutter' which he certainly isn't. He has nothing to prove with the car, infact with his job he drives far better cars than the Evo and that we can afford, (or you either for that matter at my guess...), so , certainly nothing to prove there, and as Rich W said we toyed between an Evo and a Scooby, and I suppose it was eventually my decision for the Evo, so......
Also I feel totally safe when driving with Tim, which is more than I can say for some people who I have the misfortune to drive with, plus with me in the car I know for a fact he would take no untoward chances. He is a professional has been there and worn that T-shirt over the years, plus a lot of our friends are rally/race drivers/builders etc. and Tim himself has built many race/rally cars for various people, so he definitely has NOTHING to prove with the Evo, so I suggest you get your facts correct before you start spouting off, plus was it you who splattered our car with crap, as we've spent quite a time sorting out stone chips this morning, and are we complaining, no, so if anyone has a chip on their shoulder in my opinion it's you.....

now you can all flame me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tim

Timspeed

WAT nothing to say OTIS ?????????????

Otis

Don't worry mate I'm here.

There were three of us actually. We were on a narrow staight pretty early on in the drive and I was leading. I remember checking my mirror to make sure the other 2 were fine, and then suddenly there you were. As you passed me you were semi-airborne, and then gone, it was like been passed by an exocet missile. I saw you and 2 others break away later on and we never saw you again until the cafe where you were remarking how you had, to use your words 'the legs' on the P1 that was in attendance. Just how did you discover that I wonder?

I am not doubting your abilities mate, but just stop for a second and consider how all the above events looked from the outside. You may then understand the conclusion we came to.

And that's it really, what more can I say? To be honest debating it on here or face to face will not change our view of events. It's one of those things which gets put down to experience.

Obviously been branded a nutter has offended and perhaps I shouldn't have 'gone public' so I withdraw that and apologise. Nevertheless, you were out of order and driving dangerously. And that is our opinion of things to which, I am sure you will agree, we are entitled .

Thankyou and goodnight.


Otis.

RichiW

hmmm.... sommat dont read right there to me..."'the legs' on the P1 that was in attendance" .

eh?

You probably wont get a reply off Tim as he`ll be away from this BBS until next weekend, unless he checks in the morning.

oh, and sorry i missed all you guys at Elvington, would have loved to attend but forgot completely about it!

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

D'love to see my P1's " legs " beaten......dont think so....

And gravel........I eat it for breakfast

[Edited by Mellow Yellow ! - 10/15/2001 9:44:43 AM]

Scully

Er..............excuse me butting in Tim but why did you overtake the group then if it was, as you claim, already doing 90mph? I'm sorry Tim but I think Otis has a point here.

I actually know one of the drivers who was following Otis and it would appear that the pattern of events were as Otis has described. My friend also went on to say that he will not be attending any further meets. Bit of a shame that really.

RichiW

You might have been holding him up in the corners and that was the only oppotunity he had to get past

banshi

Sorry Garry

The membership of this bbs has provided an opportunity to meet numerous people and also develop what I hope will be enduring friendships. So I have equal regard and appreciation for the considerable time and hard work that Simon has devoted to the development of Scoobynet

However I cannot accept that this confers the right to condemn anyone who participates in a run as an irresponsible highway racer without first taking time to ascertain the facts. The allegation may be justified, after all I was not there either. But as one of the few with the benefit of seeing the complaint I doubt it!

I would also like to correct your statement. Simon was not “asking that we act responsibly when on these meets” he stated “ScoobyNet DOES NOT in ANY way condone the organisation of group drive during meets organised on this board. They are patentially lethal. It seems to be only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt ”. To imply that “the request was simply to be sensible and sympathetic” is frankly ridiculous.

In addition these meets were no more conducted under the Scoobynet name than the forthcoming rally in Wales or the recent 200 Club Track Day. The bbs was merely an appropriate means of communicating with an interested population and no run that I have attended mentioned Scoobynet at a briefing or referred to it in any handout!

I am happy to accept that Simon has an abaolute right to determine policy. I’m simply unable to understand what it is.

GaryC

I guess it's all in the way you read it.

I in no way condone speeding, but that doesn't mean I don't, I just do it sensibly. Without meaning to point out the obvious, (and given recent BBS litigious 'interest') belts and braces is not only the best policy but the only one!

When a complaint is levied, what else can we do? Pass the blame and say it is nothing to do with us?

Simon cannot ban these meetings, nor (I am sure) would he want to do so, we just have to go SO careful how 'we' (all 8000+ members) are perceived. I am sure you would not want your name on a 'that Nova' (all towns have them) that tears round the neighbourhood, drainpipe exhaust note echoing, 'terrorising' other motorists.

I stopped organising these meets because the last one I did (NM2) attracted some adverse comments due to the driving behaviour of some of the attendees. It was only 3 or 4 of the 75+ people that attended, but that was all it took. I ended up with a phone call from the Police and the threat of action if there was a repeat. I have no idea what action they could levy (if any) but all of a sudden, it wasn't worth the risk anymore!!

These meets are great, the chance to learn about and look at so many cars (and owners ) I too have made some great friends through them and Scoobynet, but when the focus of the meet becomes a 'cruise' and attracts so many people so as to become impossible not to attract (massive) attention it loses it appeal (for me). Furthermore, I have to agree with Simon that when we get 75-100 performance cars tear-arsing around, a serious incident is almost inevitable. Only my opinion, but it only needs one person!

Far more attractive is meeting up with half a dozen others for a quick impromptu blast on a Sunday morning (A practice which will continue/increase with the new 'toy' )