f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

F1 is apparently looking for new entrants both on the teams and engine side.

Given that F1 engines are now to be 1.6L turbo units with more application to road car tech than the outgoing V8s which road car manufacturers would you see as best placed to enter the sport?

I guess the question boils down to which manufacturers really know their stuff about turbocharging and are or are wanting to employ it in their road cars?

neil-h

My gut instinct was to suggest one of the VAG companies given the direction they went with smaller capaciy turbos but then iirc the 1.6tfsi lump (in the most recent Polo GTi) did have some substantial issues.

I'm kinda surprised Mclaren haven't had a punt at it though, considering the engines in the MP4-12C and the P1 are in house builds and seem to be well received.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes I would have though that too only they have signed with the returning Honda for 2015.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Renault were the 'pioneers' originally, were they not (as far as turbo charging in motorsport is concerned).

So one would have thought it would keep their interest in still being in F1.


As regards fresh (engine) manufacturers entering, not sure TBH. Turbo tech has come a long way since the lagatrons of the early eighties. I think nowadays virtually every car manufacturer has a firm handle on their own applications. Not sure that one manufacturer over any other is leading the way in this field these days.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yeah should have said that Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari are already in.

We have lost Cosworth which is a crying shame as they prduced the most successful F1 engine ever and in the latter years often challenged the big boys with much less budget!

daviee

Back in the day 1982-1987 BMW were making F1 engines using high mileage second hand road car engine blocks running up to 5.5 bar turbo pressure. They manage to get 1,300 bhp out of 1,499 cc out of a standard m10 block. Some spec below, second link has some of the race and qualifying bar settings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12http://www.gurneyflap.com/bmwturbof1engine.html

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Totally. Gutted, to be honest.

Does Ricardo supply engines to F1 teams? I don't think they they do.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, truly mental.

Tidgy

there so different from road engines that depends who has money to throw at the problem.

history means nothing given tech and materials have come on leaps and bounds

speedking

As WRC cars are now powered by 4 cylinder 1.6l turbocharged units I would have thought there would be scope for some parallel development. I know the delivery characteristics are different but a lot of the technology must be transferrable. That would point to VAG / Red Bull combination.

ScoobyWon't

Any of the WRC competitors, I'd have thought. They already have 1.6l turbo charged engines.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

That's a tough one. It has got to make sense financially and commercially to said manufacturer.

If they don't make a 'sporty' road car at the moment and they enter F1, they will have to. And that will only work if they produce a good F1 engine.

With Honda, Renault, Ferrari and Merc already confirmed for 2014/2015, they are going to have a head start on any other potential entrant. I really don't see anyone else wanting to join given the costs involved, at least not until the playing field levels out.

Tidgy

totaly different kettle of fish to wrc, rev range, rpm etc etc

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

And do they produce 600bhp+, 700lb/ft of torque and run for 2500 miles in between changes?

It isn't as simple as bolting in the existing block and turning up the boost.

thenewgalaxy

Ultimately I'd have thought manufacturers with massive budgets would be the best placed.

VAG
Porsche perhaps
Mercedes
Renault/Citroen

I imagine a well drilled unit such as Prodrive or Cosworth could make something competitive and we all know Honda and Toyota are capable of something special.

Subaru are going to be rolling out 1.6 engines in the new STis at some point soon if some reports are to be believed but I feel that will be more aimed at Rallying if it is ever used for Motorsport - there is a huge difference between the engine needs for those competitions.

ScoobyWon't

Never said it was. But those with experience of producing that size and engines for competition are already ahead of those who only have a blank sheet to draw experience from.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

F1 2014 engines are V6 though and feature lots of inbuilt energy recovery which is where the road car development fits in.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

What happened there?

c_maguire

Honda.

Much of the motorcycle R&D would be transferable at that engine capacity.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Well the Mercedes engine blocks won't be cast by Zeus anymore...after the Nimbies shut them down

Point being- no matter how big the manufacturer, the specialist stuff like F1 castings are contracted out to smaller volume specialists. Even some of the design aspects...as what’s on the CAD drawing isn't always directly translatable to a manufacturable/workable part. The manufacturer is principally the one negotiating the targets and budget.

For example McLaren had a faux pas with the exhaust manifolds on their road cars -the design was good for flow and weight. But manufacturing wise, it was impossible to make without it being too weak and prone to fracturing. As was proven in testing, they ended up having to liaise with a casting company to get a design that would actually work reliably.

speedking

Conversely, energy recovery may become a requirement on WRC cars.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I hit reply before I finished

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

No, I meant with Zeus?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Subaru know a bit a bit turbos, maybe they should give F1 a crack although it didn't go too well last time they were in F1

cster

Energy management/packaging and reliability are going to be very important here.
Mind you Webber did pretty well with no KERS all year.