Has anyone seen my $2bn?
15 September 2011, 09:40 AM
#1
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Has anyone seen my $2bn?
UBS seems to have lost some money down the back of the sofa!!!
UBS loses $2bn
UBS join ranks of rogue traders today
UBS loses $2bn
UBS join ranks of rogue traders today
Last edited by Trout; 15 September 2011 at 09:41 AM.
15 September 2011, 11:24 AM
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15 September 2011, 12:19 PM
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You lot do realise that my quote is completely made up as a joke to Trout who was fishing in Alaska recently, insinuating he has stole the money.
The guy is not actually missing
The guy is not actually missing
15 September 2011, 01:16 PM
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Astonishing amount to lose. Or more accurately, an astonishing amount for risk control at UBS to miss.
Apparently he's an ETF trader for those who know what that is, and that makes such a loss even more incredible.
He was arrested early this morning on charges of fraud. Bet he's had a few sleepless nights...
Apparently he's an ETF trader for those who know what that is, and that makes such a loss even more incredible.
He was arrested early this morning on charges of fraud. Bet he's had a few sleepless nights...
15 September 2011, 01:31 PM
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Yep, indeed. Zero sum game but there's a book profit of $2bn somewhere else. Nice day at the office.
In human terms it's not great, although banker-sympathy is probably lower than whale$hit at the bottom of the ocean still. UBS recently fired 3,500 people to save roughly the same amount of money, so in theory this guy could have cost a further 3,500 people their jobs.
In human terms it's not great, although banker-sympathy is probably lower than whale$hit at the bottom of the ocean still. UBS recently fired 3,500 people to save roughly the same amount of money, so in theory this guy could have cost a further 3,500 people their jobs.
15 September 2011, 03:38 PM
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There is a rumour it was linked to a Swissie position which was badly hit by the recent Swiss Government intervention and the massive 8% swing in Forex.
Maybe he was trying to chase after his loss.
Maybe he was trying to chase after his loss.
15 September 2011, 03:44 PM
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But even with an 8% devaluation, a $2bn loss would require a massive initial position, unless it was leveraged to crazy levels. It can't have been an ETF trade, possibly the reason he was arrested for fraud. I'll be interested to hear the explanation when it's released.
15 September 2011, 05:44 PM
#19
Astonishing amount to lose. Or more accurately, an astonishing amount for risk control at UBS to miss.
Apparently he's an ETF trader for those who know what that is, and that makes such a loss even more incredible.
He was arrested early this morning on charges of fraud. Bet he's had a few sleepless nights...
Apparently he's an ETF trader for those who know what that is, and that makes such a loss even more incredible.
He was arrested early this morning on charges of fraud. Bet he's had a few sleepless nights...
15 September 2011, 05:55 PM
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His Linked In profile is outdated.
I have heard he was global head of synthetic equities so it is very possible he could have run up this position.
I have heard he was global head of synthetic equities so it is very possible he could have run up this position.
15 September 2011, 05:58 PM
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What's the actual crime here then? He's bet large with the banks money and lost but that was his job anyway?
**** poor money management skills but that's not a crime per se?
**** poor money management skills but that's not a crime per se?
15 September 2011, 06:01 PM
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15 September 2011, 06:25 PM
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I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to hide positions that size from the rest of the company in this day and age, but who knows.
This whole 'fraud' thing sounds a bit suspicious. I could be wrong without knowing the facts, but I'd tend to agree with you... it sounds like he's just lost a lot of dosh!
This whole 'fraud' thing sounds a bit suspicious. I could be wrong without knowing the facts, but I'd tend to agree with you... it sounds like he's just lost a lot of dosh!
15 September 2011, 06:33 PM
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If he concealed the trades or went beyond his level of control then it is fraud...
...just like Nick Leeson and Casaviel.
You have to think that if the bank controls allowed it then they are culpable.
...just like Nick Leeson and Casaviel.
You have to think that if the bank controls allowed it then they are culpable.
Last edited by Trout; 15 September 2011 at 06:34 PM.
15 September 2011, 07:40 PM
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Come off it Trout. That is a legitimate question about the nature of our financial institutions.
Obviously this guy risked more money than he was supposed to, but you still have a banking institution engaging in trading...it adds another layer of risk to institutions which supposedly are so important to our civilisation that we cannot do without them, being as they are 'too big/important to fail'.
Obviously this guy risked more money than he was supposed to, but you still have a banking institution engaging in trading...it adds another layer of risk to institutions which supposedly are so important to our civilisation that we cannot do without them, being as they are 'too big/important to fail'.
15 September 2011, 08:11 PM
#29
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I can see both sides of this one. On the one hand, this guy will make a convenient scapegoat for the possible imprudence of those above. Then again, if he's overridden his setup somehow to do this, he should take the majority of the blame. Defending it would be a bit like saying it's your fault if one of your employees wrecks your premises.
At some level they could probably have probably done more to prevent it though. They always could, and this will be another wake up call to put better safeguards in place. If he's overridden the system then he's basically removed money from his employers by force to play with.
At some level they could probably have probably done more to prevent it though. They always could, and this will be another wake up call to put better safeguards in place. If he's overridden the system then he's basically removed money from his employers by force to play with.
15 September 2011, 08:19 PM
#30
What a James Hunt. The Swiss National Bank could close down the IB for this and 10,000's would lose their jobs and ex-employees watch their cv's go further down the toilet*. He should kill himself if he feels so badly. IMHO I'm all heart me!
*1989-1999 London & Zurich for my sins
*1989-1999 London & Zurich for my sins