Bombardier - the death of train building in Britian
05 July 2011, 01:00 PM
#1
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Bombardier - the death of train building in Britian???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14030459
That's it for the train building industry in the UK if Bombardier pull out, we will have to buy in from the rest of the world as we will lose the skills and capacity to do so. Seems no one bothered to do an impact assessment on the effects awarding this contract to someone outside the UK - the result 1500 jobs to go...
SEEMS THAT CAMORON HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING FOR THIS COUNTRY, INTERPRET THE RULES RE THE EU IN THE SAME WAY FRANCE, SPAIN AND GERMANY DO.
Mark Young, of the union Unite, echoed comments made by Bombardier's management at a press conference on site.
"This would not have happened in France or Germany. They have to abide by the same EU rules as we do, they just have a different way of interpreting them".
"It is not too late for David Cameron to intervene and reverse this decision. He must if this site and the future of British train-making is to be secured."
That's it for the train building industry in the UK if Bombardier pull out, we will have to buy in from the rest of the world as we will lose the skills and capacity to do so. Seems no one bothered to do an impact assessment on the effects awarding this contract to someone outside the UK - the result 1500 jobs to go...
SEEMS THAT CAMORON HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING FOR THIS COUNTRY, INTERPRET THE RULES RE THE EU IN THE SAME WAY FRANCE, SPAIN AND GERMANY DO.
Mark Young, of the union Unite, echoed comments made by Bombardier's management at a press conference on site.
"This would not have happened in France or Germany. They have to abide by the same EU rules as we do, they just have a different way of interpreting them".
"It is not too late for David Cameron to intervene and reverse this decision. He must if this site and the future of British train-making is to be secured."
Last edited by The Zohan; 05 July 2011 at 01:03 PM.
05 July 2011, 01:15 PM
#2
I can just see the smart arsed, university educated, clever ******* with trendy glasses, replete with Spreadsheets, Projections, Powerpoint and an arm full of tenders that signed that one off at the DOT, probably saved a few million overall and gets a pat on the back for really nailing the suppliers to the wall, saving the goverment a few quid and also managed to kill off 1500 plus jobs and put all these people on benefits which will cost how much ?
Well done to all concerned, give the work to a German company and put all these people out of work, not content for just the profits to go to Bombardier in Canada, no we want the entire operation to go to Germany and yet more of our manufacturing dies, of course the country can survive solely on service industries cant it, everyone will get another job, yep on minimum wag flipping bugers until nobody can afford to buy then any more.
Ok, never mind they will drive home in their German car and probably update it with their bonus for saving money, and there me thinking David Cameron was only saying the other week how he wants to bring back manufacturing, embarassing for him when one of his departments makes a monumentally short sighted decision like this.
Someone needs a kick in the bollocks or a punch in the ****.
Well done to all concerned, give the work to a German company and put all these people out of work, not content for just the profits to go to Bombardier in Canada, no we want the entire operation to go to Germany and yet more of our manufacturing dies, of course the country can survive solely on service industries cant it, everyone will get another job, yep on minimum wag flipping bugers until nobody can afford to buy then any more.
Ok, never mind they will drive home in their German car and probably update it with their bonus for saving money, and there me thinking David Cameron was only saying the other week how he wants to bring back manufacturing, embarassing for him when one of his departments makes a monumentally short sighted decision like this.
Someone needs a kick in the bollocks or a punch in the ****.
05 July 2011, 01:30 PM
#5
Yes.
And which company has more UK based operations?
http://www.industry.siemens.co.uk/bu...locations.aspx
What about Bombardier? Illford, Derby and Belfast...what else?
And which company has more UK based operations?
http://www.industry.siemens.co.uk/bu...locations.aspx
What about Bombardier? Illford, Derby and Belfast...what else?
05 July 2011, 02:13 PM
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I wonder if it is part of the original plan for Europe which we were lied to about, and that is that each country had responsibilty for certain operations, and that Germany was to be in charge of engineering projects. Maybe this is being underlined by our gutless politicians.
Shameful action I reckon.
Les
Shameful action I reckon.
Les
05 July 2011, 02:32 PM
#7
I wonder if it is part of the original plan for Europe which we were lied to about, and that is that each country had responsibilty for certain operations, and that Germany was to be in charge of engineering projects. Maybe this is being underlined by our gutless politicians.
Shameful action I reckon.
Les
Shameful action I reckon.
Les
Fine if your are a banker or a boffin, otherwise you are screwed.
And we've failed anyway; Banks in trouble and the technology sector will lose in the long run as the competition ALWAYS catches up.
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05 July 2011, 03:12 PM
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I can just see the smart arsed, university educated, clever ******* with trendy glasses, replete with the Guardian, Karl Marx, tofu sandwich and an arm full of opinions that posted that one off on a public bulletin board, probably pats himself on the back for really nailing the evil Tories to the wall, saving his world view from examing any facts and put all these people on benefits which will cost how much (I have no idea because I'm in rant mode and the facts dont matter!)?
Well done to all concerned, give the work to a German company, who are making a better product for cheaper cost to the taxpayer and put all these people out of work (because they are OWED jobs Goddammit!), not content for just the profits to go to Bombardier in Canada, no we want this particular contract to go to Germany (out of all the countries that actually produce trains) and yet more of our manufacturing dies (despite the fact that it is in fact growing http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02...uring_figures/ ), of course the country can survive solely on service industries, everyone will get another job, as can be seen from employment figures rising.
Well done to all concerned, give the work to a German company, who are making a better product for cheaper cost to the taxpayer and put all these people out of work (because they are OWED jobs Goddammit!), not content for just the profits to go to Bombardier in Canada, no we want this particular contract to go to Germany (out of all the countries that actually produce trains) and yet more of our manufacturing dies (despite the fact that it is in fact growing http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02...uring_figures/ ), of course the country can survive solely on service industries, everyone will get another job, as can be seen from employment figures rising.
Amen, Comrade!
Last edited by warrenm2; 05 July 2011 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Edited for the pedant...
05 July 2011, 03:30 PM
#9
The above edittied for accuracy. You know your original economically illiterate drivel really needs to be challenged before these wrong ideas fall into non critical heads. I dont see you bemoaning the loss of the bedpan warming industry, the pin making industry, the weavers industry etc. Why arent you complaining about all their jobs being lost? Is it maybe because you are in fact seeing the BENEFITS of other people producing goods cheaper than we can. That means we have to do LESS work for the same standard of living, and have MORE free time to do something more productive. In the 1790s an English farm labourer for example spent 75% of his wages on food, that is now 14%. The fact of certain people specialising in certain aspects of manufacturing is what drives this process. The fact the Bombadier werent able to do the best job is just part of that process, the cream rises to the top. Try watching Made in Britain before you start spouting this Lefty nonsense
Amen, Comrade!
Amen, Comrade!
05 July 2011, 03:44 PM
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Bombardier will be shut completely within 12 months.
Then, whatever contracts they win will be built in Berlin.
Just to add - all the staff are on PRB which means some of the company profits will be spent in this country and won't all go back to Canada.
Then, whatever contracts they win will be built in Berlin.
Just to add - all the staff are on PRB which means some of the company profits will be spent in this country and won't all go back to Canada.
Last edited by zip106; 05 July 2011 at 03:47 PM.
05 July 2011, 03:52 PM
#11
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Teachers don't do too bad.
Lot's of opportunities to insulate yourself from the ravages of global capitalism if you know where to look.
The rest of us will have to sweep Tescos floors...probably with a manager who is an asylum seeker.
05 July 2011, 03:55 PM
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Industrial revolution
Gone full circle really.
The UK was responsible for starting the industrial revolution, first Industrial espionage was a German who pinched the design of Cromford Mill and had an identical one built in Maastricht.
UK invented trains, rest of the world copied them...
Just ask yourselves why you are driving a japaneese built Subaru, that may answer the question why we are about to stop making trains and start buying them from Germany.
The ill financed Edinburgh trams are German too.
I understand that the dinosoars largely died out due to changes in the environment. Nowadays that could purely be a bean counter generated extinction, not natural selection.
At least we have coal in the ground, due to a personal vendetta between a communist and an Iron Lady!
The UK was responsible for starting the industrial revolution, first Industrial espionage was a German who pinched the design of Cromford Mill and had an identical one built in Maastricht.
UK invented trains, rest of the world copied them...
Just ask yourselves why you are driving a japaneese built Subaru, that may answer the question why we are about to stop making trains and start buying them from Germany.
The ill financed Edinburgh trams are German too.
I understand that the dinosoars largely died out due to changes in the environment. Nowadays that could purely be a bean counter generated extinction, not natural selection.
At least we have coal in the ground, due to a personal vendetta between a communist and an Iron Lady!
Last edited by Slugmeister; 05 July 2011 at 03:57 PM.
05 July 2011, 03:58 PM
#13
That means we have to do LESS work for the same standard of living, and have MORE free time to do something more productive.
Its ok if there is an alternate industry with similar work roles to slide into, but when there isn't. What then? Retrain and rebrain? And who pays? For example, an assembly line worker spedning their working day playing with bogies (
) isn't able to do anything more productive than what they are already experienced with, and likely would not want to work in a telesales centre or behind a checkout desk.Its an issue that needs firmly addressing, not brushing off to the side.
05 July 2011, 05:42 PM
#17
The above editied for accuracy. You know your original economically illiterate drivel really needs to be challenged before these wrong ideas fall into non critical heads. I dont see you bemoaning the loss of the bedpan warming industry, the pin making industry, the weavers industry etc. Why arent you complaining about all their jobs being lost? Is it maybe because you are in fact seeing the BENEFITS of other people producing goods cheaper than we can. That means we have to do LESS work for the same standard of living, and have MORE free time to do something more productive. In the 1790s an English farm labourer for example spent 75% of his wages on food, that is now 14%. The fact of certain people specialising in certain aspects of manufacturing is what drives this process. The fact the Bombardier weren't able to do the best job is just part of that process, the cream rises to the top. Try watching Made in Britain before you start spouting this Lefty nonsense
Amen, Comrade!
Amen, Comrade!
Ok, will watch "Made in Britain", as I watch the death of us manufacturing anything in this country, this isn't mechanisation or the industrial revolution it is sorely needed work for 1500 people being given away to another country, I doubt that the Siemens rolling stock will be significantly cheaper or better quality than that made here, Bombardier arent exactly 1970's Leyland so we arent choosing between the cream of the crop and some tin pot outfit that produces shoddy goods, unless there is something I am missing, my point was that this has just seems to have been awarded on the bare cost, not the overall cost to the UK which should be a consideration for govermental contracts.
As for more leisure and less work, well maybe for some but 1500 people will have an awful lot of leisure and not a lot of money to spend on it, what they do have will probably be funded from public coffers, which, if you hadnt noticed are a little bit empty at the moment but I am sure these people will be happy for the German workers that have the work and they can enjoy their spare time doing something "More Productive" like joining Job Seekers, Watching Trisha and getting depressed.
As an example in Microcosm I tend to use the local car spares place round the corner, he is helpful and convenient and it suits me to use him, I may be able to order a part from elsewhere, go to Halfords but I place a value on him being there even if his prices may be a little higher, thing is if we dont, he closes down and then we loose that element of competition and are stuck with Halfords who then put their prices up. I am thinking that it may not have been beyond the wit of the Germans to perhaps offer a "loss leader" so they can sell their rolling stock knowing it would knock out the home grown competition for the long game as once its gone, its gone, there arent that many train builders around.
As for Lefty nonsense, I was just thinking its common sense to favour your own country if there isnt a big reason not to, I couldnt really see the Germans giving out contracts to us like that, I suppose we get to build Mini's for them but that is only because it is a "British" Brand, cant think of anything else.
I am not even that patriotic, far from it I just see more losses to the economy which puts more people out of work, which means more benefits paid out and me getting squeezed further and further as the part of the systems PAYE milking herd, how that fits in with doing less work and more leisure I dont know.
Last edited by J4CKO; 05 July 2011 at 05:46 PM.
05 July 2011, 07:53 PM
#18
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Strange how, now the Tories are in power, it's
but when they were in opposition
Further evidence that they are in no way Eurosceptic, and when they get their hands on the tillars of power, etc etc. Basically the electorate can go and **** orf as they don't need us anymore ..... I'll ask it again, how many lampposts around Westminster Square ????
Dave
The Secretary of State said procurement of the trains was carried out under the EU directive and said, "the Siemens bid clearly offered the best value under the criteria set out in the original competition". He added that the government had to comply with EU law and he did not have the power to call in the order.
But Shadow Transport Secretary Theresa Villiers said the announcement was "typical spin" from the government.
"Only around 500, at most of the 12,500 jobs, announced today will be created in the UK by the train builder Hitachi and Labour have produced no convincing evidence to back up the rest of their claims on jobs.
"This announcement raises further questions about Gordon Brown's claims about British jobs for British workers. Geoff Hoon needs to stop the spin and tell the UK's hard pressed train manufacturing industry the real truth about his decision on replacing intercity trains."
"Only around 500, at most of the 12,500 jobs, announced today will be created in the UK by the train builder Hitachi and Labour have produced no convincing evidence to back up the rest of their claims on jobs.
"This announcement raises further questions about Gordon Brown's claims about British jobs for British workers. Geoff Hoon needs to stop the spin and tell the UK's hard pressed train manufacturing industry the real truth about his decision on replacing intercity trains."
Dave
05 July 2011, 08:21 PM
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Why does this surprise you people? The last 30 years of Govts have just been kicking the can down the road, allowing themselves to feed from the trough. The country is finished. This is just the beginning.
05 July 2011, 08:30 PM
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05 July 2011, 08:50 PM
#22
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“A few years ago, everybody was saying we must have more leisure, everyone’s working too much. Now everybody’s got more leisure time they’re complaining they’re unemployed. People don’t seem to make up their minds what they want.”
the end game, is a low wage, low skill economy, and this is absolutely necessary and a pre-requisite to support the vision of society we have
06 July 2011, 03:12 PM
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Les
06 July 2011, 06:17 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14030459
That's it for the train building industry in the UK if Bombardier pull out, we will have to buy in from the rest of the world as we will lose the skills and capacity to do so. Seems no one bothered to do an impact assessment on the effects awarding this contract to someone outside the UK - the result 1500 jobs to go...
SEEMS THAT CAMORON HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING FOR THIS COUNTRY, INTERPRET THE RULES RE THE EU IN THE SAME WAY FRANCE, SPAIN AND GERMANY DO.
Mark Young, of the union Unite, echoed comments made by Bombardier's management at a press conference on site.
"This would not have happened in France or Germany. They have to abide by the same EU rules as we do, they just have a different way of interpreting them".
"It is not too late for David Cameron to intervene and reverse this decision. He must if this site and the future of British train-making is to be secured."
That's it for the train building industry in the UK if Bombardier pull out, we will have to buy in from the rest of the world as we will lose the skills and capacity to do so. Seems no one bothered to do an impact assessment on the effects awarding this contract to someone outside the UK - the result 1500 jobs to go...
SEEMS THAT CAMORON HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING FOR THIS COUNTRY, INTERPRET THE RULES RE THE EU IN THE SAME WAY FRANCE, SPAIN AND GERMANY DO.
Mark Young, of the union Unite, echoed comments made by Bombardier's management at a press conference on site.
"This would not have happened in France or Germany. They have to abide by the same EU rules as we do, they just have a different way of interpreting them".
"It is not too late for David Cameron to intervene and reverse this decision. He must if this site and the future of British train-making is to be secured."
Bombardier have admited that even if they had won the contract they STILL would have made 1000 people redundant.
Last edited by stilover; 06 July 2011 at 06:19 PM.
02 August 2011, 05:18 PM
#25
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More on this ... http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/201...to-injury.html ...
Our government really p!sses me off the way they "say" they have to abide by the "rules" which a) no other b$gger in Europe does and b) means we, Brits, always lose out. Remind me why these traitors are elected as MPs again ..... 
Dave
But what is now emerging is that, according to the EU rules which la Villiers says she has obeyed, and on which the government has so expensively paid for advice, the contract need not have been given to the German firm. Thus comes via the Derby Telegraph, which has Siemens heavily involved in worldwide corruption, which could have barred the company from the competition during the tendering process. While Siemens was bidding for Thameslink, it was fined a record $800 million in the USA and €395 million in Germany over bribery charges, in addition to another 201 million euros it paid out in 2007. It was barred for two years from bidding for contracts from the World Bank.
Dave
02 August 2011, 05:31 PM
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More on this ... http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/201...to-injury.html ...
Our government really p!sses me off the way they "say" they have to abide by the "rules" which a) no other b$gger in Europe does and b) means we, Brits, always lose out. Remind me why these traitors are elected as MPs again .....
Dave
Our government really p!sses me off the way they "say" they have to abide by the "rules" which a) no other b$gger in Europe does and b) means we, Brits, always lose out. Remind me why these traitors are elected as MPs again .....
Dave
02 August 2011, 05:54 PM
#27
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Bunch of gutless politicians,i wouldn't p1ss on them if they were on fire.
They either don't give a damn or they really don't have any *****.
Great Britain my ****
They either don't give a damn or they really don't have any *****.
Great Britain my ****
02 August 2011, 06:04 PM
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Both as it happens.
Anyway in the next few months the hard facts about what their over zealous policies have the economy are going to come home to roost and this time they won't be able to hide behind any EU rules excuse!
Anyway in the next few months the hard facts about what their over zealous policies have the economy are going to come home to roost and this time they won't be able to hide behind any EU rules excuse!
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