Petem95

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10501920.stm

What planet are the Unions on? Do they not realise what state the economy is in? There's loads of people out there would be give their right arm for a job at the moment, loads more who are likely to lose their jobs in the near future (public sector especially) and BT staff (through the unions) are rejecting a 5.1% rise over 21 months??!...

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I'm against all strikes.

However this case seems to have more merit than some other unions I can think of - BT have imposed a 2 yr pay freeze, yet made > £1bn profit - I can see why the workers would be pi**ed.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Out of all the utilities, I'd say for domestic services for home users, BT offers the worst service and the worst value for money out of the lot of them (gas, water, leccy, etc). Will these strikes give the consumer a better company? No. it rarely does. But it does show the big gap between workers and mangament of a company that is on a downward spiral, which is the result of it being oversized, inefficient and badly managed (Just like Royal Mail). The company desperately needs to be taken over by some foreign telecoms giant that actaully has a clue; And they'd soon kick the unions into touch.

(Just like Quinetic did when revising its rundundacy packages )

vindaloo

BT is apparently very healthy and profitable though. They've just come off a 2 year pay freeze and people are asking where's the gravy? Turns out maybe the BoD and shareholders have mostly emptied the boat?

Leslie

I think they will all be on strike eventually. It will be a selfish political move by the unions since it gives them a heaven sent opportunity to create havoc in a move to destroy the present government. The damage they do to the country and our economy is of no concern of theirs, in fact it will suit their purpose very well!

Les

stilover

Just wait for the Government to push through their proposal for the Public sector to be brought into line with the private sector when it comes to redundancy payments. Watch the ******* strike all over the place

pslewis

We are due a winter of discontent ..... and rightly so, why should the working man pay for the excesses of the Bankers? While the Bankers still line their pockets!

There could be an uprising if the Tories push too hard ...

GlesgaKiss

It's the other way around. Everyone's paying for the excess of the workers.

Petem95

It's down to the whole system not being sustainable at the end of the day.

There is no way we can have a country where so many live on benefits, early retirement for many, free health care etc - so much of this is all being paid for by debt.

If you look at what sort of level of cutbacks are actually required to get things to a sustainable level its frightening, but it looks like governments are actually starting to move in this direction. In the long run it will be better because there should be more stability, but living standards can only fall, and fairly sharply.

LeeP

iTrader: (7)

...not to mention the sacking of loads of good UK based contractors and replaced with "off shore" colleagues who are absolutely useless. They are cost cutting everywhere, working the good workers harder than ever and NEVER give anything back.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

imho its about time the workers revolted , its like being a pavement at a seaside town (shat on from all angles) get paid peanuts ant then take pay cuts to boot . takes the p1ss . upper management on silly saleries . the big boss of the company i work for gets £485000.00 per year sorry but no one earns that , he is getting the same as 27 normal workers . cant wait for the 20times lowest paid worker limit to come into force that will firk em up . only problem is companies will just make it up in shares

pslewis

Meanwhile, back on planet earth .......

Why should the working man take a hit while Bankers are lining their pockets with big fat wages?

Nah, sorry ... it ain't going to happen - and if the Tories remove the right of a worker to remove his labour in dispute I can see more than a few riots. I lived though the riots of the early 80's ..... oddly enough, it was a Tory Government then also!

Only this time it will be the Bankers and High Paid Executives who will be the target ..... it could get very nasty.

gallois

.....we had 0% last year, and below inflation the year before that, they offered us 2% this year before realising that they doubled their anticipated profits to 1.9billion, the union asked to renegotiate after the full years results came in, so BT did......2% this year, and 3% next year. FINAL OFFER.....the executive board took an average of 6% payrise this year, and an average of 70% increase in bonus this year, the shareholders got 6%, while we had our hours altered to provide cover from 7a.m. to 9p.m. for no extra money. Yeh we'll take 2% and the execs can have the rest?

dpb

Dont for goodness sake thro fact into the mix

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

LeeP, yes seen it with my own eyes

Gallois, yes, having worked for BT doing contracting, it really is bad, especially after the farce they called 21CN another waste of good cash due to getting some idiot with no idea how a telecoms company works and then off shoring the lot to India

Alot of people also think its "oh they provide a service, they get good pay etc, they shouldnt strike", well wake up people, BT has cut its arms off (its field staff) so that its management can look good, this means (and we get alot of interaction with BT) that since the 1990's, the ammount of field staff (skilled field staff) has deminished to a handful, all this due to "cutbacks" and voluntary redundancies.

Tony

shooter007

you work for that shower of s*** management that is tier two and up are the biggest load of a*** holes on the planet and are trying to send bt work force back to the dark ages

gallois

It really is quite sad, 21cn - truly shocking, a gigantic waste of money......i've worked there for 15years, and seen the decline, i used to be so proud to work for BT, now i am embarrassed, disillusioned, de-moralised, but it's all i know, and leaving to look for another job is not a good idea at the moment..............people would be shocked if they knew the half of it, so here's just a snippit of a day in the life....

we have out of date equipment (my panasonic cf-29 laptop, needed for ADSL and ISDN testing, and now EVERY FKIN JOB WE DO thanks to the Pair Quality Tests approaching, is 10 years old, 512mb ram, 80gb harddrive.),

Hawk-testers cost millions to roll out, Then BT cancelled the contract, so we have literally thousands of testers (£800 each), that have gone faulty, but no spare parts are available.

We we're forced to have trackers fitted in our vans, the result is a system that is almost a joke, the work allocation 'computer' cannot interface with the trackers, so do not know where we are when allocating work, the result engineers driving 20miles toward each other. With productivity actually going down, and overtime at an all time high since the trackers were fitted. (but at least they know what time we go home!?!)

We get scrutinised on potentially every job we do by audits (The auditor HAS to find fault, he is measured on finding faults by his manager) , and get disciplined for every single aspect of that job if it does not meet the 'standard' even for our wording used in the job closure notes. For example we will get a 5point critical defect for not typing "test and demonstrated with Ms Jones" or a 10 point critical defect for not typing "Pair Quality Test completed", A 10 point defect means discipline, and ultimately the sack.

We are said to be paid 10% above 'the market' (the market - being sky engineers, virgin etc), but on the other hand, if we attend a fault, and a cable has been cut or stolen, then we must, locate the damage, sign and guard the road, (obeying very strict rules and being individually open to prosecution by the council highways department if we do not comply to the letter), enter the underground network using lifting equipment, and gas detection unit, identify the cable, measure and mark it up, visit the local police station, report the crime, obtain a crime reference number, make a statement, contact BT's crime desk, obtain a crime ref number, contact work allocation obtain estimate number (be prepared to appear in court), if the stolen length is replaceable on the day (short length, or small in size) we replace the faulty section (ok in this weather, but horrendous in the winter), we then get questioned why our productivity is poor on that particular job, or why we have repeat reports when the cable gets stolen again the next day. (it takes 8 weeks for BT to fit a locking lid).........so we finish with the cut cable, covered in grease and grime, next job....fit an ISDN line, or fault their ADSL line in a nice plush office, we try to clean up using the 'hand wash' station in our vans (we used to have hot water tanks, and a miniture sink, but cost cutting got rid of that, we now have a bottle of handwash, and paper towelling) but it is hard to feel professional when you feel dirty, or are ashamed to shake someones hand with black fingernails from working in the underground network.



Or turn up at someone's home or business who has been without service for week due to the red -tape and regulations and have them literally screaming in your face, or attend vandalism to line plant and get surrounded by gangs on some sh1thole council estate with half the houses derelict and be genuinely worried about your own safety.

Or become one of the engineers who get killed or seriously injured when ascending or descending a pole, some poles are huge. (thankfully quite rare)...,

i know the obvious answer is to walk away, and find something else, and i realise that there are many many people who would put up with what i do, or put up with far worse, and i truly sympathise with you guys, but i am not looking for sympathy myself. The only thing that keeps me here is the relatively secure job security and i need this job, and need the money for my 2 young kids who are far more important than my gripes at work.........

There are not many good engineers left now, the pay is simply not attractive enough anymore to attract the best. The job has become a minefield of redtape and pointless stats, Lots of good guys have left, some with stress, some have simply had enough, and even one or two gone for good, from this world, in my area, there are probably 20-30% engineers that i would be proud to work alongside, the rest range from cowboys to clueless to incompetent, it's embarrassing.

The engineers pay used to be quite good, and it doesn't feel like it is anymore at all, (possibly because of running a scoob), is £23,500 a decent wage these days?, should i be grateful, and take the 2%?

So sorry for the rant, i just wanted to give an idea of what it's like, and why we want nothing more than the rate of inflation.

gallois

oh, btw, the ballot has been cancelled due to a legal technicality (BT have VERY powerful lawyers.) so no strike.

forgot to add, next time you pass a BT exchange, especially the smaller ones, take a look at it, and the grounds, and the apparant neglect, the 3 foot grass, the peeling paint.

the execs will still get their money, the shareholders theirs.

whilst EVERYONE else, including YOU, it's customers, are treated just like the sorry looking exchange buildings.

pslewis

£23,500 is a pittance, to be brutally honest ..... and why I would agree you should strike!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Market rates my **** those from virgin etc get more than 23k per year, probably more like top end D1 money, just to put a downer on it, how much of this can you do Gallois?
Thats more than my basic and I do alot more than that (ericsson and transmission kit) so its quite skilled work, think im in the wrong job though I enjoy the challenge too much.....

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shooter007

After 28 years and a rising prozac intake i couldnt take any more stress so chose redundancy.This was after being sent to the OHS 3 times, at a cost of £600 a time to try to prove my own doctor wrong. Luckily for me my wife has a business I could be shoe horned into. At 50 + bt was destroying me, and yes i have experience of most, if not all the above but bt dont give a s*** about that. I have lost 2 good colleagues to suicide who couldn't take any-more. I now have my life back. Best thing I ever did.

Leslie

I agree with you about the bankers who lined their pockets by cheating while your heroes encouraged them because they liked being over friendly to the men with the money!

How about telling us what would be a better arrangement, make cuts now to save the country or to just carry on borrowing until it all falls apart and the country goes down the tubes? If that happens what will happen to the working man as well as everyone else?

Where else would the money come from Pete?

Les

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Its not good though having worked with a few BT guys when I was commissioning AXE10's (several in the Sheffield/Leeds and on the odd occasion Bradford, just dont mention Hare Hills though ), and seeing where the cuts were it really ruined BT, especially the works manager system, such a piece of cr@p, then there was the "bench" and re training, send a guy from down south to leeds for a weeks retraining, cost the company 3 times his normal wage due to travel and accommodation expenses and all in the process of saving money
I wont even mention Al Noor Ramji, sacked from Quest and brought in to BT as the head of 21CN, instant loss there

Tony

shooter007

thanks tony you know the truth every general manager for the last 10-15 years as come from a failing company and they still get a golden handshake ask about fast ethenet when the exchange isnt capable of 21cn talk about fingers in dykes

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You should have heard the one about the SDH, when asked on 21CN where the budget was for their SDH connections, they answer was "we will just run fibre between the 2" top quality IT guys there

Tony

shooter007

a homer moment dooooo brains of a fish sad thing about bt is it wastes money without even realising it heard the one about the dsl tester ,every dsl eng in spain and france as a dedicated test unit that will test any part of the network upto and including the sdh loop(with the correct module ) Yorkshire as ONE yes 1 bt wisely decided to use software on already expensive laptops which it sourced without using its in-house org it now as no spares ho ho ho