David Lock

One of my Koi is swimming about in a near vertical position, opening and closing his mouth fairly rapidly as if gasping for air although he is not breaking the water surface.

He doesn't seem to be under any stress but how do you tell? It's probably a swim bladder problem but that's just a guess and I don't know what to do. I don't even know if the problem can be cured or is it the end of the road?

For info the pond is in good condition although a bit greener than I would like. I haven't added any new fish for a long time so this is not a virus thing. This particular fish has been with us for several years and I would hate to have to bang him on the head. He's quite a big chap now at around 23-24".

Thoughts please. TIA, David

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

I would put it down the loo





Joke

little-ginge

My OH has a pond full of Koi, and one of them has a swim bladder problem. He spends most of his time swimming around the bottom of the pond ( the fish not the OH lol). The fish is otherwise healthy and seems happy - hence why he is still in the pond!


Gasping near the top.. oxygen problems in the water? but i would expect more than one to be doing it.. it does sound like you have a poorly fish on your hands. Can you phone a local Koi specialist/aquarium, they might be able to help more.

RRH

Sounds like he's short of oxygen.

Get an air pump in there pdq- or a fountain, waterfall- anything that will agitate the surface of the water.

If he'll stand for being handled, gently pull him backwards through the water- this will increase the amount of oxygen he's able to absorb though his gills.

David Lock

I don't think it is an oxygen problem. I have a waterfall, 6 air stones and an additional skimmer pump which moves the water surface around and a spray bar which oxygenates water in the filter system. And as I said he is not actually breaking the water surface. I'll spend some more time on Google and mail my Koi guru mate who is now in New Zealand! Thanks for input. David

RRH

What sort of volume is the pond David? It may be worth a partial water change to lower the temperature, just in case that's whats bothering him.

j4ckos mate

we bring in loads of these koi carp jobbies, they come by air from all over the world.

they are pain to clear theu customs,

David Lock

It's around 4000 gallons. I did a recent partial change as part of my attempts to reduce the green algae. Pond does get warm especially in recent hot spell but this hasn't been a problem before.

I noted your comment about a gentle tug backwards but the problem with that is that he would be a nightmare to catch the next time around!! They do remember you!!! David

pnbond007

iTrader: (1)

David
Do you use freeze dried salt in your pool ?? once a month put about two handfulls diluted in a bucket then add to the water return slowly, this helps create the slime which protects the fish, plus helps to reduce lice etc.

The reason i ask is it may be a good idea to submerse him in a mild salt solution, you'll have to support him though cause at times they can go drousy if the solutions strong enough, this is ok for a short time then put him back in the pool and support the fish till he swims away, moving him back & fourth till capable of supporting itself.

I had exactly the same happen to one of my most expensive Koi, I basically spooked em when walking upto the pool, the fish in question belted into the side wall & i would guess concused himself.

I took him out and treated in a salt solution 'freeze dried only' then once returned back to the pool he went on his way.

It could be lice in the gill's, again a salt solution will help clear this, but if your gonna submerse him be carefull.

For example I use a 64ltr really usefull bin 3/4 full of water with one handfull of salt mixed in.

If you dont add salt every so often all sort of organisms breed.....but PLEASE read up about it before taking my word, it works for me.....

My water is poor right now & most readings are close if not off the scale, its clear but not in good shape, its just the weather. 25% water change every week will help.

other tips:

1. Change your UV bulb every 12 months
2. Weed control - use Blank-it 'Red Box' best i have found so far & really does work well.

I'm no expert however its my experience of having a pool for 8 yrs with stock that some of which are over 25yrs old & ones i have introduced over the past 6yrs are doing nicely.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Could be overeating - I know with goldfish if they stuff themselves then they can get swim bladder problems, and will float about on the surface and look like they are dying.

Probably worth taking the fish out and putting it in a seperate pond or tank in case it is something viral as you wouldnt want it to spread to the other fish in the pond.

Normally if it was an oxygen problem in the pond you would expect all the fish to be effected ( but it could be that the one fish in question has some problem that makes it harder for it to take in oxygen than the others ? ), but probably worth clearing out as much algae and blanket weed as you can as they will lower the oxygen levels a lot, and if you havent already, get some oxygenating plants / waterfall etc... in there to help keep the algae at bay.

This time of year its always a battle to keep the water clear as you only need a couple of really sunny days and the algae can really take over - might be worth getting somethnig temporary to shade the pond from the worst of the sun ( you can get these big sheet things from garden centres that you put up on poles which should work quite well ).

David Lock

Thanks chaps, some really useful comments there.

I have heard of the salt treatment and might give this a try. I think it important to avoid table salt which has iodine added. Where do I get this freeze dried stuff you mention? Any hardware place?

I also have some of those Really Useful 64 litre boxes and I will need something at least that size using some pond water and an air stone chucked in.

I used to have a big blanket weed problem and tried most things and now use BLANKET ANSWER, a Cloverleaf product but there is a good source on e-bay so pm me if you can't find it. Really excellent.

I find UV lights need changing at least every 12 months and have recently fitted a new bulb and checked the light for limescale build-up which can reduce the efficiency.

I have played around with a sun screen and used that black weed suppressant material but is usually ends up in the water!!

Cheers guys, David

Big Pete

With water being greener than usual me thinks an algae problem? If it is the algea would be helping to limit the amount of disolved oxygen in the water. As would the recent high(ish) temperatures (oxygen disolves less in warm water). We use EXTRACT OF BARLEY STRAW to control the algae in the pond.

David Lock

Just to complete the thread. I got some salt in and some useful info on use of antibiotics but then fish suddenly seemed to have recovered. Swimming normally and sunbathing with her pals. She did have a slight bulge on her side which we put down to roe. The good lady said she wasn't eating too well but difficult to tell.

But found her today on bottom of pond. Hauled her up but no obvious signs of any problems.

She weighed in at 15lbs, was 24 inches long and 10 inches deep. We've had her about 10 years.

dl

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

Sort of topic related...my son had two gold fish in a tank. One was fat. One morning my son found the fat fish dead and when he moved a stone loads of tiny fish swam out

Is it possible that the female died protecting her babies? It has been a week now and the other fish has not eaten any babies. They are about 3ml in size.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Hi David,
Sorry I have only just noticed this post and now it appears it's too late to offer help.
One important thing to remember about salt, although it may appear an obvious thing to say, is that your koi are fresh water fish and salt is an alien (toxic?) substance to them, and contrary to what you might have been told will actually remove mucus from the fish. This is how it helps to reduce skin-borne parasites, because they come off with the mucus layer.
It should be treated as any other medication. Hence salting your pond to treat one fish is like giving your whole family paracetamol when you're the only one with a head ache.
Silly analogy perhaps, but the best I can do.
For the record, table salt contains anti-caking agents. Either Magnesium Sulphate or Sodium Forrocyanide and either of these will potentially cause harm to your fish.
Should you find the need for salt as a medication, it can be dosed at 1/2 ounce per gallon for a pond treatment involving several fish, or up to 3 ounces per gallon for a single fish in a bath for as long as the fish will remain stable, but no longer than 5 minutes. Koi do not go 'drowsy' in salt, they are succumbing to the osmotic effect of water being drawn from the body by the salt and will eventually die.
Your best option for a supply of koi suitable salt is your nearest koi dealer who will supply vacuum or freeze dried salt in large bags.
The UV lights will only be effective to treat algal growth for about 6 months although it will still give off violet light, so I usually change mine on the 1st May and run it until the end of September, and then turn it off until the 1st of April and use it for a month until it needs changing again.
I hope this will be of help in the future David.
BTW I'm not an expert either, but I did do 2 years training and 5 years practice for the BKKS as a koi health advisor.
Steve.