Snazy

What are your thoughts on this one.

I am due to have surgery in April, and will need 4-6 weeks off work to recover to a good enough standard to return to do my job.

Problem is, since my long term absence from work last year, I have no entitlement for sick pay other than SSP. In fairness I did get over 6 months paid, so im not complaining.

The real issue starts with the legal issues. My employer failed to take appropriate action to assist my return to work, which left me off for almost another 2 months. If that had not happened, I would have sick pay left to have my operation.

Sounds greedy I know, but the reality is I cant afford to have unpaid time off work, but my arm is very painful and the surgery needs to happen soon.

So if you were in my position would you think ...

1/ I was lucky to get so much sick pay last time, and suck it up and take SSP

2/ Be grateful for the last sick pay, but feel the employer should still pay this time because of the previous **** ups

3/ wait til sick entitlement begins again and arrange the operation for then

Im sure there is a lot of negative things that can be said about this train of though, but its been a funny old year the past 12-15 months.

PS, whatever the thoughts on it, is it wrong to approach work to "plan" my time off, especially to plan it round waiting for sick pay.

njkmrs

It sounds as though they have been good to you previously ,so I would take the hit without pay if the pain/discomfort is that bad .
If you can put it off a year ,then do that ,if the money is a big problem .

my94wrx

iTrader: (4)

IF you can tolerate the pain? wait until your sick entitlement begins again then get yourself mended

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

The truth is: in these parlous times you need to breed some good will and go that little further.

Is there any chance you can do light duties / part time?

Otherwise I'd look at SSP and maybe build up some savings to help tide you over - remember you could have any mortgage / loan payments paid if you've got insurance

jayb1970

It's a tough one that, but if it was me I think I would go for option 3. To have 6 weeks with no money would be very hard so I would have to wait. Saying that I could plan my finances to "suck it up" as you put it, question is would I want to do that? I'd say no. Which ever way you look at it your company was good to pay you for that long last year, although some would say that is your right. How did they **** it up then? Is it something you could pursue to get paid this time? Can you speak to a boss, without predujice(sp) to get a heads up on what might be the way to play it?
Sorry to answer your question with questions.LOL.

Jason

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Jay - without wishing to sound patronising, but the best advice is usually the one that gets you thinking.....

Snazy

Waiting a year, no chance, I cant put up with it that much longer. But that said I "think" my rolling year ends about May/June, so if the hospital can reschedule for then, I can do that.

Like I say, I dont "expect" them to pay me for being off, but knowing that contractually they will, I would be daft to be off for 6 weeks unpaid if I dont have to be.... I think.

Jay, the cocked up because after my operation and sickness from work prior to it, they were meant to make changes to the office for my work station to satisfy the company doctor, but took 2 months to do them, so the company doctor kept me signed off for the extra 2 months.

If I had gone back when I was ready to, and they had made the changes, I would have sick entitlement left and could go in for surgery as planned in April.

I know it makes me sound pig headed and a little expectant, but im just being realistic about it.

Kieran, im already on part time because of the previous sickness, not sure I can get on much lighter duties than desk work that I already do lol. I have approached my manager about it already. Push comes to shove, I have my solicitor making enquiries already.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Can't offer you any advice Michael other than what you know, but at least your employers haven't dropped you at the first hurdle like mine did, using a legal loop hole. They still employ you so thats a bonus at least.

Snazy

Only til the legal bill lands on their mat, then they might start thinking otherwise lol.
But yes, like I say im grateful for what they have done to date, regarding sickness, just wish my useless **** of a manager had foofed off a little sooner, then I would have been back at work sooner, and so on..... hmmph!

cster

Well they paid you full pay (?) for six months when they didn't have to.
At six months they probably could have let you go (I think) anyway.
Unless you are absolutlely certain they they can't survive you - it might be better to learn how to live off SSP for a couple of months, and thank your lucky stars you are not self employed.
NB. there are new laws regarding dismissal of employees about to come in to force.
I haven't bothered to read them, but I believe they simplify employee dismissal.
Might be an idea for you to look into this whilst you are at it.

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Would it be possible to arrange a temporary job switch with someone else in the company, I.E one where you could do a job wich doesnt involve lifting etc so you can return to work sooner? 4-6 weeks on ssp would be bad, I'm having 2 weeks of ssp on this months wage and I'm dreading it (2 weeks off for meningitis).

Leslie

They must have some regard for you Snazy since they were so good last time. I would be tempted to see your boss about it pointing out that the operation has to be done and see what kind of help they are prepared to offer you this time.

Les

Snazy

Cster, they were 'good' to me based on the advice of the company doctor they sent me. Mainly due to the fact that they accountable for my absence in the first place, pre op anyway.
The delay in returning was also based on their shortcomings.
While I am VERY grateful to have remained on full pay, hassle free, I am not sure they were 'good' to me.
6 weeks on SSP is not a viable option in all honesty, can't survive on that, end of.

The legal implications for them is the bit that makes it a bit awkward for them in all honesty.

I am really not that arrogant to suggest they CAN'T get rid of me. Not trying to force my hand with them, just reach a reasonable agreement with them to get this op done asap.

Johnny, I'm office based, no lifting or anything anyway, so can't get much lighter duties.

MrRA

Christ, who do you work for, the *****?

If you had time off last year and was able to provide a signed Doctors note for that time off and now require a genuine op which again will see you under a Doctor for your sick note then surely your employer can't get rid of you and has to pay you accordingly.

EDIT: Are you not entitled to three sickness related absences in a rolling 12 months??

Snazy

I am indeed entitled to 3 asbenced before action is taken, but the maximum payment period is 6 months on a rolling year, which I have used up.

They are in fairness a good employer, never created grief about paying me, just the complex issues with the delay in returning to work, them causing the delay, and the running out of sick pay that's causing me problems.

cster

Sounds a rather complicated.
Income support options worth looking into?
Good luck anyway.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

There is a way the employer can get rid of you. This is basically if they believe you are unable to carry out your contractual duties. They aren't legally required to resituate you within the company either, or invent a positon for you.

It works in 2 sections.
1. They can dismiss you as above if you aren't physically/mentally capable of doing the job. As long as they follow the proceedures, you cannot do them for it. They simply play on the H&S aspect of it.
2. The blame however for the reason to be dismissed on medical grounds is a totally seperate kettle of fish. How do I know? I'm in this EXACT positon curruently.

Have a "poorly" wrist which mean't I couldn't do my job, so was dismissed. Had no comeback as it was the truth. So employment law solicitor had nothing for me. But, it's my belief that the problem was caused by their negligence, which is where personal injury solicitor (no not Lawyers4u - a proper bunch of specialists contracted to my Trade Union) comes into play.

So in a way, Snazy may have had 6 months off fully paid, and in theory could be dismissed eventually if he couldn't meet contractual obligations, but... as he's said a company doctor has already stated the issues were caused by the employers originally. So I would assume to save a legal wrangle that could cost them Ł1000s eventually, they paid his wage and made necessary changes. This is ofcourse for other employees of the companies benefit.

The above is my understanding of the situation anywho. Sorry if it seems presumtuous Michael.

ScoobyDoo555

IMHO< i'd talk with the boss - you never know, they might be pretty cool about the whole thing.

At worst, you'll have to take a "hit" on your pay.

Dan

greenonedave

How secure is your employment must be the first consideration, My mate got knocked of his motorbike on Tuesday, to hospital as they needed to plate and screw his wrist together, phoned work when it happened, called during the day on Wednesday, had his operation about 3pm Wednesday, He phoned in Thursday to let them know how he was and over the phone they made him redundant ! Its a sh*t hard world out there.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

So far as I'm aware, a company can get rid of you due to sickness, either if you have to many instances, or if you fail to meet your contractual agreement. Also, a company, doesn't have to pay you to be on the sick, they can't withold SSP, but they don't have to give you full or even part pay as I am led to believe.

Snazy, if they have in fact made a mistake last time, then I would have a word with your boss, and see if there is anyway round this situation, let them know you need this op, you never know , they may bend the rules on this occassion.

Hope you get sorted.

Snazy

Job security, who knows. No indications we are in trouble, or that they want rid of me, so im not concerned to be honest, but hard to tell whats round the corner in this climate. Sorry to hear about your mate.

I have approached my boss and indicated I need this surgery asap now, and that I am concerned that I will lose money and not be able to get by on SSP. I have asked him to find out when any entitlement begins again. Cheeky but living in the real world.

COB, I would agree that they were treading carefully, but the whole pay thing really was down to a useless arsehole of a manager who was not interested in doing anything, so went for the easy life. He is also the one who failed to provide what was recommended.
Sadly he has left now, however my employer IS left with ongoing legal action against them for the companies failure to carry out the required changes, and failure on duty of care.

cster, it is quite complex in some senses, but at the same time quite simple. A quick breakdown.
2006 diagnosed with a condition
2007 treatment started for condition, resulting in occasion 5 days off work following treatment.
2007, after 3rd treatment, sent to company doc for assesment. Recommendations made.
2007 (end) returned to company doc, changes recommended not made, secondary injury noted.
1 week later, signed off work with secondary injury.
Jan 08 surgery carried out on original injury, secondary injury being treated privately.
Company doctor refused to sign me off to go back to work til changes made...

April, ready to return, changes still not made, GP and company doc BOTH refused to return me to work til changes made.

June, sick pay ran out, returned to work on temp role, company promised to get changes made the week I returned, and finally did.

Hope that makes sense of the company's failures that I am talking about. Like I say there is no expectation or demand there, just hope really. Been in a lot of pain today, so would love the op to happen in April as planned.

Snazy

Cheers Lisa, very diplomatic there, "a mistake" I like it. hehe.

I am hoping there is some way that something can be sorted, will get the op out the way, and return to work asap of course.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

100% spot on Lisa.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

As always.

Seriously, this is really their fault that you are currently in the situation you are in, so I would have thought they would rather not have another issue against them depending on how they handle this.

Tbh, looking at that time scale of when you were off, I would think you would already be back within your paid entitlement now, if you are allowed six months (you started your sick in Jan, so unless I'm being thick, if you only need a few weeks off, you should be able to take that now, or at least very soon)

DYK

Snaz one thing to remember without your health you aint no good to yourself or to anybody.It's alot more important than money,but is no harm in trying to get a few extra pennys along the way.depends how bad your arm is if you think you can hold out a while longer.

Snazy

I know what you mean mate, but to be fair its not about having a few extra pennies, more to have enough to survive the month after I return to work.

Lisa, you could be right, thats what im trying to establish at the mo, if its the beginning or ending of the sickness.

At the end of the day, all i am after is getting my operation done asap, but need enough to cover bills and live on too

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

Do you get paid for leave - why not take two / three weeks leave and get the op done while on leave. i guess you will be plastered up afterwards, so go into work and sit on your **** for the remainder of the time until the plaster comes off.

Coffin Dodger

Makes me glad that I work for an employer that actually thinks about this sort of stuff. We all have a life assurance policy provided by the company which includes protection for any long term illnesses or injuries. Once we're outside of the absence period paid for by the company in an given year the insurance kicks in, 90% of salary until we either return to work or retire, and they carry on paying into our pension. Luckily I've not had the need to use it but nice to know that I won't have to worry if for some reason I can't work

davegtt

You wont lose anything for explaining the situation and asking. If not then you tried and ask if they mind if you took SSP? Times like this we should be grateful for just having a job so cant take the pee really

Snazy

Totally agree Dave, that's why I am happy to work with them to stay on side so to speak

Coffin Dodger, sounds good mate. In this case I'm sure my employer has something to financially cover them for such things, bit its not something they want to advertise.

At the end of the day, while I know I'm not legallý obliged to anything, so have no expectations. However in the circumstances, I don't thing its unreasonable..

TT, I know where you are coming from, and used 20 days of annual leave after my operation last year, which I then felt cheated for. Taking holidays to allow them to do thingd that they had already had 5 months to do!

At the end of the day, if push comes to shove I think I will end up doing similar to what you said. Take an unpaid week off after the op, then just turn up at work unable to do anything for a few weeks.