skoobidude

Hoping to seek advice here on behalf of my brother.
He has been working in a food factory for almost 20 years. In that time 2 shifts have been introduced:-
Week 1. 6am - 2pm Mon-Fri
Week 2. 2pm - 10pm Mon-Fri

Eventually they introduced compulsary every other Saturdays into the above pattern giving the following:-
Week 1. 6am - 2pm Sat, Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri (Thu off to supplement the previous Sat)
Week 2. 2pm - 10pm (Saturday off) Mon-Fri then roll into week 1. i.e finish at 10pm on the Fri evening and back in the next morning at 6am for Sat changeover shift. Nice!

Eventually all bank holidays were taken away from them with exception of Xmas Day and Boxing day. My bro hasn't been able to get a week off for Xmas for years

The latest is that as from June this year the shift pattern will change to 6am-6pm, 3 days on 3 days off rolling continuous through the 7 day week.

Now my brother finds change difficult and whilst I and my family have encouraged him to leave, his job is unskilled and he is bothered that there is nothing else out there. This isn't helped by the fact his stupid narrow-minded colleagues tell him there are no jobs out there!
I'm spending a lot of time talking to him at the moment to encourage him to speak up and find out what the alternative is from the company.
Rather than throw the towel in I'd like to think that he would be entitled to some redundancy if he doesn't agree to the new shifts.

Can anyone with any legal knowledge in this sector advise.


Thanks


Nick

PS my brother has, shall we call it "learning difficulties" so I'd rather not have any "kick him up the ****" type comments thank you.

mart360

Speak to CAB,

the law has changed, bank holidays cannot be taken from an employees, holiday entitlement. your brother must get these days as well as his normal holiday entitlement.

If your brother can prove constructive dismissal, then he would be ok, sadly i think he may not be able to,

why, out of interest do his coleagues not want him to leave?, are they offloading all there sh*t jobs onto your brother, and making him work like a trojan, whilst they take an easy ride?


Mart

skoobidude

Mart

When the bank holidays were taken some five or so years ago, it all went through the Unions and they settled on a one-off payment! So they don't even get a yearly increase for giving up bank holidays!
The workers there must be right suckers and my brother just gets dragged along with them. Trouble is he is not the type to go into confrontation or speak out for himself.

I think the mentallity of his colleagues leave a lot to be desired. Let's not forget he works with and amongst unskilled people. They probably don't want to be left there alone without any friends!

Nick

PaulC72

I think it is a sad situation, but if the bank holiday loss waqs dealt with through Unions then I think the union needs changing as they seem to of had a raw deal.
As far as annual holidays go you would be best checking CAB or even a simple search online would pull up the legal requirement.

Take a loo at BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch | Employment law: Your questions used as it is BBC and assumed reputiable it generalises over a few peoples holiday problems which may give further insight to your brothers plight.

Also review Holiday Entitlement - BERR government website.

HTH

Richard_P

There's no way to refuse the shifts. As long as they give reasonable notice of the change in hours (I think legally it has to be 5 working days) then you must comply.

The 10pm finish on a friday night then 6am start is not right. Employees are entitled to 11 hours between shifts under the european working time directive. There can be exceptions to this if its a temporary measure to cover a busy period.

Have you looked to see if there is more work out there?

PeteBrant

The rules are, as far as I am aware- If the change in hours is small - By that I mean , say started a couple or hours earlier or later, then you have to do it.

If there is a more significant change, then the company has to offer you voluntary redundancy if you cannot take the new hours. I.e. they can't "sack " you.

A similar change was recently brought in on our shop floor.

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

they could of signed the the opt out a while a go. i work 4 on 4 off shifts and they are great maybe he would like the new shifts?

shooter007

i think unfortunatley you know that the only person with any real influence is you what ever any one else says can you find him something hard as this will be

john_s

iTrader: (1)

A lot of it will hinge on what his contract of employment says. If there's a clause in there that says they can change the working hours, there might not be much he can do but to accept it.

If there is not a clause allowing them to make changes, there may be a case on the horizon for constructive dismissal, but he would need to follow the company's dispute resolution procedure first, or the constructive dismissal claim may be thrown out. I'd suggest CAB or his union would be best to advise him in the absence of the clause allowing working hours to be changed.


To pick up on a couple of points mentioned above:

Bank holidays can be taken from holiday entitlement, but the minimum holiday entitlement is increasing to accommodate them. The law does not "force" employers to give bank holidays off, but if you don't get the actual bank holiday off, you will be able to take a day's holiday in lieu of it. (This is only half in effect at the moment.. the revised law takes full effect from next April).

There has to be a minimum 11 hours between shifts; that is set in stone, and not affected by the opt out... the opt out applies to "volunteering" to extend your maximum hours in a working week beyond 48.

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

But if that was set in stone then wagon drivers wouldnt be able to reduce to 9 hours 3 times a week then?

john_s

iTrader: (1)

Drivers' hours are covered by a different set of Regulations.

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

i hate working time biggest joke ever, if i wanna work 70 hours a wekk i will

ScoobyWon't

In my experience Working Time regulations are generally used against the employee when the employer wants to get rid of them without making themselves liable for constructive dismissal.

I know several pub managers who opted back in to the working time directive, at which point the company then told the manager what hours he had to work. They basically removed the manager from being present when all important duties must be carried out, such as placing orders, receiving deliveries and checking the contents of the safe. Once the managers were then unable to effectively run the business, the company would say that the managers performance is not up to the standard required by their contract of employment, which gives the employee little choice but to jump ship.