davegtt

This would be funny.

Ive come home for lunch this afternoon and found a letter waiting for me, Its from Lincolnshire Magistrates Courts, a Fine Enforcement Summons ordering me to court on the 15th of November for an outstanding fine of £263. No information about the fine, what its for, anything at all. So spent ages on the phone trying to find out more info. It goes like this

Apparently!!!!! On the 26th of October 2006 I was caught speeding @ 82mph on the A1 (this, if true I will hold my hands up and take the points and relevant fine no problem) although I never recieved the Fixed Penalty Notice.

I never recieved the reminder they claim was sent to me

I never recieved a courts summons they sent me for the 19th of January 2007 where I was fined £220 for failure to delare the driver.

I never recieved the reminder to pay which was sent on the 30th of January 2007.

I never recieved the Distress Warning which was sent to me on the 20th of February 2007

Yet I managed to recieve this letter perfectly well.

When I rang to enquire the first questions were, name, address, how long Ive lived there = 5yrs btw, DOB etc....

After struggling to understand why this is the first Ive heard of any of this she says well its all been sent to.......... Previous address

: What a waste of time this has all been. So now shes put through a First Declaration and I have to go to the magistrates court on the 1st of November to make a Statuary Declaration and she claims the whole thing will be put back to the original offence of just speeding and it will be dealt with from there.

Is that right? So Im expecting to do this Statuary Declaration and its all forgotten about presuming I own up to speeding, pay my £60 and take the 3 points? Im confused as to what to expect now.

TIA for any comments or advice.

RMA26

Previous Address? are they saying that it was sent to your parents house then?

Personally, i'd seek advice

RMA26

Make sure you get copies of these 'so called' letters mate! which will prove which address it was sent

Where is the R5 registered to? EG, your house address? or parents still? cos they'll try and screw you on that next, as *i think* it's an offence not to register your car to your new address

bonerp

Advice! I had similar with an ex's fine that we didnt know about. Bloody *****. They should simply send these notices recorded. They'd know it was received then!
P

davegtt

No not my parents house, MY previous address (I owed another house before the one Im in now)

But its registered at my current property. thats a fact cause I declared it SORN in March and recieved all the paperwork to confirm that so they definately know my address.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Take advice from Pepipoo. Don't assume you are guilty of the offence they claim. The fact that they have not shown due care and attention to even summon you to court in the right way may be ground's for acquittal. Not to mention compensation due to the stress it just caused you.

Its all about revenue remember, fight them I say.

davegtt

Not bothered about fighting stuff etc and looking for compensation, Im all for the easy life. I probably was speeding for all I know. it was on a stretch of road I travel on every other sunday, the offence date was a sunday. Im happy to hold my hands up to it (not that I recall any of it) but to recieve a letter of such threats (suggesting prison etc) was a bit disgusting considering this has been going on a whole year without my knowledge at all.

Airwolf69

I found these two legal replies to a similar 'ish' situation to yours. I think they say much what you say, but might be worth a look.

NIP sent by employer to wrong address and now I have been convicted with a large fine for not responding: is there an appeal against this? — The Roadside Lawyer


My name was spelt wrong at the DVLA so we sent back any letters recieved: now I have been summoned for speeding — The Roadside Lawyer


HTH

davegtt

Thanks for the links, most helpful

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

That is exactly why they get away with doing this. People are all for the easy life

You honestly have no idea even if it was your car they took a picture of. They got all the address details wrong, who is to say they even took a picture of the right car at the time.

I would look into it. Fair play to hold your hands up if it was you. At least find out if that was the case though. Ask to see the evidence.

bish667

iTrader: (1)

When I was caught speeding by a camera down south,I was sent a letter a few weeks later that was recorded delivery, because I wasn't in at the time I was given a slip to collect it from the PO. I was not waiting to get anything so decided i'll not bother getting it as they would know I'd received it.

A few weeks later they sent it normal post. I chanced ignoring it and thought I was getting away with it until over a month later I got a second more threatening letter. So thought I'd better just take the points and fine

The weekend after I sent payment with my license the local police parked next to me when I was parked up and asked me to speak to them. They then spoke to me about why I hadn't replied to the letter that I'd been sent. Got a stern talking to even though I said to them I could prove I had just sent the documents off (they didnt believe me as I did take a long time to respond plus a lot of other ppl have probably said the same).

Police up here dont have much better things to do.
I was actually quite surprised the local police got involved.

fast bloke

"What form must the notice take?

It can be :-
a) given verbally at the time of the offence, or
b) by a summons being served on the offender within 14 days of commission of the offence, or
c) a notice of intended prosecution, specifying the nature of the offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, must be served on the offender, or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence, within 14 days of the offence.
These provisions are deemed to have been complied with unless or until the contrary has been proved (ie you will have to raise it).

If you have not been given the notice within 14 days (ignoring the day of the offence) then they cannot proceed against you unless an exception applies (see below).

Exceptions & Get Outs

a) No such notice is required if a full or provisional fixed penalty notice has been given or fixed under the Provisions of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
b) A notice sent by post must be dispatched so that it would reach the driver within the 14 days within the ordinary course of the post. If this is the case then it will have been deemed to have been served even if it is delivered outside the 14 day period.
c) If there is an accident involving the vehicle in question, of which the driver is aware, then the police do not need to provide a Notice of Intended Prosecution.
d) Failure to comply is no bar where the police could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained the name and address of the accused in time for service of the summons or notice within the 14 day period, or the accused contributed to such failure.
e) Service of a notice at the last known address of the accused will suffice for good service."

They didn't serve within 14 days, and didn't serve it to your last known address if the details on your R5 are correct....... No points and you can send me the 60 quid

davegtt

fast bloke, thanks for your reply. The offence was on the 15th of Oct 06, they served notice on the 26th of Oct 06. Only problem is they sent it to my previous address of 4 years ago (5 now, but this is going back a year) hence not knowing anything about it til now. According to the above links the courts are giving me a Statuory notice which means that all actions against the original offence are dropped and details handed back to the police, if the police want to chase it from scratch they can serving me with an NIP. If at such time it comes through I shall hold my hands up and get the points and fine. Simple, its sounds like they dont bother following it up though from what Ive been reading. I just hope this all goes through without anymore hassle.

Airwolf69

Fast Bloke

I found that on the internet but that is a notice to proscute (NIP) and not a fix penalty notice, and I believe the rules are different but not 100% sure.

fast bloke

Airwolf - You might be correct. I had similar hassle about a parking ticket. I didn't get the ticket and they sent the follow up to my old address (This was in 2005 - I moved in 1997) - Continued sending stuff until I eventually got a summons after moving again in 2006 (first I heard about it) I think they have to send you a summons within 6 months if you don't respond to the NIP. Not 100% clear if the same stuff relates. Anyway Dave - Go and see a 'free first consultation' solicitor before you do anything. SHould on take 10 minutes and you would hope they have a better source than google

davegtt

Im happy with my research on the Statutory Declaration from what Ive been reading, thanks for any advice though

Quite funny how they can make such a ***** up of it though.

I had a spare bit of wedge which Ive just spent on a holiday to Magaluff with the lads in 10 days time but because Ive just done that I cant afford this bloody fine now if they try to get the full some out of me thats whats made it all so stressful when I read the letter this morning.

Brun

Keep us posted on the outcome

MattW

Bit on the close side. As you say 15th is a Sunday, they have to serve and ensure it reaches you within 14 days. 26th is a Thursday so they are relying that 1st class letter would be delivered by the Saturday as no post on Sunday.

If you do receive an NIP, I would be inclined to write back stating that, also point out that due to the time limit you cannot recall the driver and ask them for a photograph.

They may well just drop it.

davegtt

Thanks for the tip Matt. If it gets to that stage then I may well request the photgraphic evidence. It does seem a bit too easy though to have this all thrown out with no evidence so to speak. Basically I could have just ignored everything for the last year and now said I know nothing off it all and it all just get dropped? Seems too easy

Brun, will do

MattW

Most legal systems are based on being able to ascertain what is true. Often, the truth of something can only be discovered from available evidence.

A Statutory Declaration is a way of assisting in this discovery. It is a way of making a statement of fact, which gives the statement greater evidentiary weight than it might otherwise have. This is because you and others are aware that if you lie in a Statutory Declaration then you can face criminal charges.

Simon 69

Make a statutory declaration and get the judgement set aside. Speak to the court admin office immediately, you only have a few days (21 or 14).

Simon

daddyscoob

surely they have 14 days to issue a NIP to the registered keeper of the vehicle. If all your docs are in your current address it's their mistake and therfore they this would be thrown out if they took it to court

davegtt

Thats exactly the point though, its already been and gone to court because they presumed I was just ignoring their letters when in fact I wasnt even recieving them. Im sure it'll all get sorted but its just the last thing I wanted to see on my doorstep this morning.

boomer

davegtt,

fill in the NIP Wizard at PePiPoo to get a better view on how to proceed.

mb

Leslie

Surely if you did not get the notice of prosecution within 14 days allowing for postage, you just cannot be convicted of the speeding offence. If they had your address wrong you could not have got that NIP in the first place. If you had been told that you will be reported with a view to prosecution at the time of the offence by the copper who says he caught you or his mate then that defence won't work.

You can turn up at the court and tell them you were not guilty because of no NIP and claim costs too.

Les

davegtt

Les, thanks for your input... Update here from this morning

https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...hrown-out.html

MattW

So no re prosecution?

davegtt

The police do have the opportunity to follow it up we a new NIP although from how its been explained to me they generally dont bother unless its something much more serious.

Leslie

Good news Dave.

Les

pwhittle

I had similar when I allegadly didn't inform the DVLA of a car sale. They convited me in my absence for not paying a parking fine, and I found about it when they tracked my down 4 years later!
Had a totally wasted half day of to go to Leeds court, then spent a full moring in the local court waiting to make a stat. det. The never ever wrote to me to say it had been dropped.
All becase they couldn't be bothered checking with DVLA, and finding out I'd moved.
It's amazing what they get away with.