Fuzz

Just been arsing around with my AV amp as I was sure things sounded flat.
Everything seemed ok in there.
Then fiddled with the PS3 as I thought maybe one of the updates had reset something, nope, all OK in there.
Dug out my demo disc.. BAM DTS FTW
what was going on..
Looked at my DVD collection and see that the last three Bluray releases I bought have only been 5.1 or PCM 5.1
No DTS, not even Dolby FFS..

High definition my ***.
WTF is the point in producing an all singing all dancing video if it sounds as flat as a fart !!

Counting them up I have more 5.1 stuff than I have DTS stuff (with one in between just doing DB PL)


Andy

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

DTS and Dolby Digital are just compression schemes though - if your disc has PCM (= Pulse Code Modulation) audio on it, doesn't that imply no compression at all and, therefore, the best possible quality?

Doesn't mean to say that the original source material is any good, though...

Fuzz

I stick any one of the DTS enabled discs in and the sound system comes to life..
Can't explain it..
Thought maybe my Denon 2805 was supposed to convert the PCM signal into whatever it needed and shove it at the right speakers but it doesn't seem to do it very well.


Andy

[Davey]

what did you play the demo disc in the PS3 or DVD player? I'm guessing the PS3 doesnt have a coax out for audio and your dvd player does

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

It's the PS3 that should be converting the audio on the disc into a format your amp can use. Blu-ray discs should hold superb audio, but most A/V amps out there can't understand the format or cope with the bit rate. So, either the player has the decoder and DACs in it, and you have a bundle of 6 or more cables linking it to the multi-channel analogue input on the amp, or the player has to produce some other digital signal that the amp can understand.

I don't have a PS3 or a Blu-ray player myself, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Sony's priority wasn't in getting the best possible audio quality out of the machine under all circumstances, but in making it as cheap as possible. Call my cynical if you like.

At a guess, your PS3 is playing the disc in 2 channel stereo, and your amp is in Pro-Logic mode. So, you're effectively getting the same audio quality we've had on broadcast terrestrial TV for years, ie. crappy.

What's the audio connection between PS3 and amp? Analogue or digital?

Is there an option on the PS3 to choose between audio soundtracks when playing a disc? Or a configuration setting somewhere to tell it you have a surround system?

Fuzz

Digi optical out on the PS3,
Configuration is between bitstream or PCM.
I have it on Bitstream.

I know my amp can't do True HD as that will only out put via the HDMI port on the PS3 and I have yet to get an amp that can throughput HDMI.

The PS3 is one of the few players out there that can output Master / True HD as said though this only comes out via HDMI.

Options on the disc menu for 5.1 or 5.1 uncompressed (PCM) I have it on PCM.


Andy

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Does your amp's display show what format it thinks it's receiving?

Try choosing 5.1 on the disc menu. It might have good old Dolby Digital on there, which your amp can decode OK.

Leave the PS3 set on Bitstream; I reckon its PCM setting means 2 channel PCM, like you'd feed into a hi-fi stereo DAC that can't cope with multichannel.

I reckon what's happening is that:
- the selected audio on the disc is uncompressed 5.1 PCM, which should in theory sound great... but...
- the PS3 can't output that through the optical port; Sony's engineers probably knew that most A/V amps wouldn't be able to cope, so they only made TrueHD available through the HDMI port
- so that you do, however, actually hear something at all, the PS3 downsamples the 5.1 PCM audio to 2 channel, and delivers that through the optical output. (They can't encode as DD 5.1 - that costs CPU power and license fees)
- so, by selecting 5.1 uncompressed, you're actually getting 2.0, maybe Pro-Logic if you're lucky.

Fuzz

Tech specs of each..

avr-2805
Key Features
Type Receiver

Number of Channels 7.1 Channels

Surround Mode Power 100 Watt @ 8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, THD: 0.05%

Surround Sound Dolby Digital® • DTS® • DTS ES® • Dolby Pro Logic II

THX Certification No
DSP
DSP Modes Classic • Concert • Game • Large Theater • Matrix • Mono Movie • Video Game • Virtual
Inputs / Outputs
Rear Input Connectors RCA (2 Audio Channels) x 9 • Digital Coaxial x 2 • Digital Optical x 4 • Composite (Video) x 6 • S-Video x 6 • Component x 3

Rear Output Connectors RCA (2 Audio Channels) x 4 • Digital Optical x 2 • Composite (Video) x 3 • S-Video x 3 • Component x 1

Front A/V Connections Composite x 1 • Couple RCA Jack x 1 • Optical x 1 • S-Video x 1

Analog Inputs 7.1 Channels x 1

Preamp Outputs 7.1 Channels

Component Video Bandwidth 100 MHz
----------------------------------------------------
PS3 I am struggling with specifics.
Official site says
"--Sound Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-based processing)"
etc.. WTF is excetera supposed to mean?
I did however find
" at the back you'll find both HDMI and optical audio outputs, as well as an Ethernet port.

The HDMI output is v1.3, which means you can achieve lossless PCM, DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD, sound if you happen to have an HDMI v1.3 amplifier to play them through. As yet there aren't any but we're expecting some big AV names to introduce models before the year is out. Which is just as well, as the PS3 has no analogue audio outputs."

(that review must have been done a while ago as there are those amps out now)

Fuzz

Stuck the amp on fully auto everything
Bitstream on the PS3

Stick in a DTS DVD and it switches to "DTS SURROUND"

Stick a 5.1/5.1 PCM disc in and it doesn't budge..
changed disc options to 5.1 only
Now it switches to Dolby PL at least... Nearly there.
Sounds much fookin better anyway.
Cheers Andy.

Now I need a disc to set the picture up properly..


Andy

Jamz3k

PCM is defo the way forward its lossless, from what i've heard on my friends PS3 running it thru his Teac AG-7D amp and Monitor Audio Silver Series surround sound speakers it is nothing short of exceptional and his amplifier is **** compared to yours.

I have went down the HD-DVD route and my xbox will only output lossy DD+ and TRU-HD as DTS and it also is fantastic although i did find Matrix Revolutions to lack bass.