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BBC NEWS | England | Beds/Bucks/Herts | Police officer stabbed to death

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

This really saddens me, I think it's about time our Police were armed to defend themselves, what will the Murderer get 5 years? I also think it's time the death penalty was brought back for the murder of any of the Emergency services(Flame Suit On) My thoughts are with his family, RIP PC Johnathan Charles Henry
Cheers
Colin

Simon C

No flame suit from me, my mates a paramedic, and has had to defend his colleague from an illegal immigrant they went there to help.


The illegal for his energy duffing up the paramedic got a 7ltr air bottle in the face, then the **** kicked out of him by the cops who don't take kindly to paramedics being assaulted.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough, but talk about making work for yourself !

Jerome

As much as people (including me occasionally) moan at the police, events like this make you realise that it is a potentially very dangerous job. I also think most people would regard this as the police dealing with a real incident, which, if SN were to be believed, never happens.

There were multiple officers at the scene and the officer in question was wearing a stab proof vest. Seems incredible it lead to an officers death.

Very tragic for the officer's family and colleagues, but an equally sad indictment on society.

Here's hoping the culprit actually gets a "hanging judge".

RIP Pc Jonathan Charles Henry.

turboman786

Errm, no I think he will get 35 years like the recent cop killers.....

The Zohan

Listening so some senior career cop on R5 live thismorning telling me that violent crime is no more than it was 20-30 years ago amnd it is the perception of it that is high, detection rates are better, blah, blah..

Then a raft of real front line cops texting and calling in saying what a load of rubbish the tow the NL line carreer cop was spouting and how it has changed ahd how much worse things are hand how the figures are being massaged to suit the gov't.

I know who i believe

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I for one am against arming the police, and if we bring back the death penalty it should be for all murders.

Leslie

Yes so do I. I have seen so much of this sort of posturing from senior offiicers in the Services who will say black is white for the sake of their own careers and possible honours!

I also agree with the previous post about not arming the cops but making hanging a standard penalty for murder, cops or otherwise.

Les

scoobynutta555

Heard yesterday that the guy was from Zimbabwe, was street begging and living in a hostel. Hanging's too good for scum like this. Can someone tell me what political party is not crammed full of pc do gooders and left wing policies?

SteveScooby

iTrader: (2)

BNP?

Markus

Terrible loss of life. Regardless of what type of person the attacker was, they don't deserve to continue living, the should be executed. Why should taxpayers have to pay for this scum to sit in a cell for 30 odd years, lighten the tax burden and remove this scum from the genepool.

Sadly there is no death penalty and he'll simply be put in a cell and probably live a fairly nice life at the taxpayers expense.

fatherpierre

RIP.

My thoughts to his wife and baby.

There's so much **** out there that are prepared to stab/shoot anyone.

My faith in our system of dealing with people who commit crime and milk the system has dwindled in the last half of my police career to date. The longer you do, the more you realise how wet this country is, and open to abuse from anyone who fancies it.

Just carrying a knife should mean prison. Sadly, it doesn't - regardless of the previous convictions of the offender.

Jaybird-UK

Time to arm our Police force, perhaps if this officer had a gun the outcome may have been very different.

Are there any Police on this board? interested in knowing if the Police themselves would like to be armed.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Are there any Police on this board? interested in knowing if the Police themselves would like to be armed?

Good Question that, anyone like to comment?
Cheers
Colin

Jerome

Speaking as a weapons instructor in the TA, I am strongly against the routine arming of the police.

Some people are just not suited to handling guns. Plenty of people suited to being a police officer should never handle guns, especially when amongst the public.

Furthermore, the number of accidental shootings of innocent people would be unacceptable IMO.

Lastly, it is also likely that many more criminals will start to carry guns, even when committing petty crimes. Again, this would be an unacceptable side effect.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

It's not worked in America lets face it. In this case would him carrying a gun have stopped the outcome?

monkeyboy840

Are there any Police on this board?

Yes there are me, although I would feel happy carrying a firearm, many officers in our force state that they would leave the job if forced to carry one. I think officers should be routinely armed with tazer though. A much less lethal option.

fitzscoob

I dont think guns are the answer, I think a lot of problems could be solved if the police didnt have so many rules to abide by.

If the guy pulls a knife, the police should be in their rights to batter the bloke senseless with their baton, and mace for good measure. Ask questions later.

If the offender happens to get badly hurt then he shouldnt have pulled a knife or whatever.

I feel that some situations are the cause of what reprisals are feared, rather than dealing with the situation as is required.

monkeyboy840

1... I'm sure the same could be said about the TA?

2... On what fact is that statement from? (just wondering not being funny)

3... I agree with you. I feel this would be the outcome. I wouldnt want to shoot anyone in this country anyways, as a cop your immediately suspended from duty and investigated (investigation I understand just not suspension).

As usual treated as guilty until innocent, what a justice system.

One of our lads has just gone to oz and on his FIRST shift one of his collegues was stabbed. ANother cop shot the guy dead and they were all back at work the next day with a big congratulations from the head shed.



Anyways its one of the reasons i'm leaving the force in the next 18 months and emigrating to new zealand. for a better life in a better country. and i'm not joining the cops over there if anyone wondered.

thats my two penneth, feel free to flame if required or pm or whatever.

monkeyboy840

As long as you can prove reasonable force was used the above is not a problem.

Like you say though its just proving it was reasonable when your stood in court charged with GBH for saving your own ***

Jerome

1. People who cannot handle weapons do not progress from being a recruit. I've failed numerous people on their Weapons Handling Test (WHT). One safety issue and you fail the entire WHT. Some pass later on with extra training, some have to leave the TA.

2. When I lived in Toronto, just one story I recall from the press was of a plain clothes Toronto cop who shot a 14 year old boy at close range 3 times, not suprisingly killing him. The kid was playing basketball and was not known to the police. The cop did not even announce he was a police officer and when the kid turned to run away from the cop he was gunned down. The officer in question was completely exonerated, which I thought was scandalous.

A quick search in the North American press will reveal many other stories.

Even in the UK, incidents have already happened:

A guy in a mini was shot multiple times as he sat in his mini in London in a case of mistaken identity. The man (Stephen Waldorf) survived amazingly.

A man with a chair leg was shot and killed. See here


Another was shot as he got out of bed in another **** up recently. See here

Need I mention the bloke on the tube shortly after 7/7?

Just a few incidents off the top of head. All by highly trained fireams officers, rather than rank and file officers. Thankfully rare as well.

Jaybird-UK

I think you should have the tools for the job. Is a truncheon the right tool for a knife wealding lunatic? possibly not.

I agree with your comments on tazers, a very effective non-lethal device that may have prevented this tragedy.

Perhaps if guns were optional standard equipment, ie an officer could refuse to carry should he feel that strongly?

The Zohan

Thats fine, but, to put this into perspective, how many times have firearms been issued or SO19 called in. The cases you quote are over approx 20 years, so lets see some perspective.
if fireamrs have been issued 10,000 times then this is a very, very small proportion, if ony 10 times then not looking so good.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Condolences to those affected by this terrible event.

I would be reluctant to see regular bobbies armed, but do think there is a case for more ARUs and for non-leathal weapons being available to those on the streets e.g. Tazers etc...

The argument that we can't arm the police as the criminals will just tool up to meet the increased challenge is carrying increasingly less weight. Many already are tooled up; it's a question of whether we send our officers in with the capacity to defend themselves or not.

On the lighter side of the firearms debate: have a look at this clip of a domestic incident.

YouTube - Spaced - Gun Fight

Leslie

I think that the basic problem is the attitude the PC Plonkers have towards known criminals and those who commit grievious offences of gratuitous violence.

In times past, before the lentil eating Roman sandal wearing with head accommodating ***** prats were allowed to get into positions of control, those who seriously transgressed the law were regarded as having abrogated their so called human rights. If they got a bit of a kicking during the struggle to control them, well that was their bad luck! Well desrved in fact was how people quite rightly looked at it.

The other important bit was that once convicted, the bloke could expect a significant period in gaol with minimal reduction for good behaviour, and he would be sent off every day to break stones up or similar hard labour. None of this TV and computer nonsense was available and time in gaol was not very pleasant what with slopping out etc.

This made it the sort of experience that criminals preferred to avoid and it was a major encouragement to people to avoid doing it again. This had a big effect on crime and the crime figures, particularly for serious offences was very much lower. A murder was front page news and they did not happen very often since the death penalty was a significant deterrent. Not surprising really!

Until we get a real leader who is prepared to take this problem by the throat and sort it as it should be, things will just get worse and we shall be living in an anarchic "Mad Max" society!

Les

Felix.

I'm against routine arming - but increasing the amount of ARV or allowing us to carry TAZAR would be a benifit. I think it would be too risky to have loads of guns being forced onto a community.

DCI Gene Hunt

For the community it would, I wouldn't arm them with tazers either... in fact it doesn't matter what you armed people with, incidents like this would still happen.....

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Better someone gets a 20,000 volt haircut than a bullet in their head though. At least with the first option, you get to apologise for your mistake!

Unless, of course, the victim has a pace maker!

Then again, if you p*ss off someone armed with a Tazer when you have a pacemaker, there is an argument that you deserve what you get and Darwinian rules apply!!