douglasb

For reasons related to my "car prices in 1977" thread, I'd be interested in your opinions of which present day cars are equivalent to -

Scimitar GTE - low volume production, based on a large(ish) sports saloon, adds a bit of carrying capacity without it becoming a "load-lugger" estate, upmarket image, based on mass-produced mechanical bits, slightly more seating that just a 2+2 without really being a full 4 seater.

Capri - affordable coupe based on mass market saloon, smaller engined versions offering similar performance to the saloons they are based on, larger engined ones having real power, full seating for 4 adults (maybe not for long distances, though )

I can't think of anything that directly matches these descriptions so I'll be interested in everyone's thoughts.

If there are no obvious successors to the GTE and Capri, what do you think are the closest modern equivalents?

dsmith

Capri...200SX

Scimitar GTE....Saab 93 V6 Sportwagon.

Alas

For the Scimitar there was the 480 Volvo but nowadays the nearest I could see would be the Alfa 147.
Don't really know if there is an equivalent for the Capri.

Vegescoob

Rwd, is that important? BMW Touring series?
Except I think that the point is that mainstream manufacturers have filled so many "niches" that the rationale behind those sort of models has gone Because there's virtually something for everyone, whatever their taste.
Scimitar? In a way Impreza Wagon, although larger production runs, sort of fits.
Capri? Is the RX8 in the same vein?

Brendan Hughes

Scimitar GTE - WRX wagon?
ZMCoupe perhaps has not enough seats.

Capri - VW Corrado. Which is dead now, but wasn't until, erm, recently.

Or should that be the other way round?

Brendan Hughes

This was really bugging me last night.

Capri - a coupé. Best I could come up with was a Calibra, followed by a Rover 220 (Turbo) coupé or one of those 2-door Honda Civic things which seem to have much the same body shape. You're missing the long bonnet of the capri though (perhaps due to safety regs or FWD).

Scimitar - a GT. It's a bit expensive (!), but I wondered about Bentley Continental GT or Maserati 3200GT. Otherwise, there are a few Mercs around, maybe the CLK?, but you wouldn't really put a dog in the back.

As stated above, it's all to do with niche marketing, and that today's niches are answered by different cars.

If a mod is around, this might get more replies in Other Marques

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Capri 2.8 special ---> Monaro?

Scimiter ---> BMW 325 Touring?

GaryK

Looks wise the GTE is similar to the M coupe but that like all the suggestions above is hardly low volume although you dont see too many on the road. The 'spiritual' successor to the capri was the probe and that flopped and was then replaced by the cougar which is fords modern take on the capri.

What are the modern equivalents of the allegro, princess and marina? Thats what I want to know

Gary

martyrobertsdj

iTrader: (1)

Not sure, but they're bound to be Korean!!! LOL

Olly

Spot the resemblance?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Olly, not really the Capri is way better looking !

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

The truth is, neither the Capri or the Scimitar have ever been properly replaced with a direct descendant, Probe, nope, Cougar, Nope, nearest Ford have got is the latest Mustang which is perveres as the Capri was a Mustang clone for Europe, I did post a while back asking what happened to the new Capri that Autocar kept producing 'spy' photos of !

Now I quite fancy a new Capri, wheras though I quite liked the Scimitar I think it was an answer to a question nobody had asked, nearest thing to follow I suppose was the BMW M Coupe.

Olly

Me too Jacko, I would be the first in the queue. Seems to have gone stagnant though. I can't imagine why: retro seems to be a money spinner at the mo.

I always reckoned that my old RX8 was a modern take on my dear old 2.8i. They shared new price value in comparison to rivals, good performance, good handling, front engines, rear wheel drive, seating for 4 adults, a good boot, good practicality, coupe good looks, comfort and cruising ability, and crap fuel economy . And technically, both are Fords anyway.

Wasn't a Scimitar most of the above anyway?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Can see what you are saying Olly but the RX8, though a nice looking machine and a brave move for Mazda, it just doesnt do it for me, the last RX7 looked like a proper dirty beast though.

Alas

New 1 series BMW got a slimilar shape to the Scimitar.
M8 of my old mans had a Scimitar. Loved it till it burst into flames on the motorway & burnt itself out

Brendan Hughes

Modern Capri - Seat Leon. All it needs is the RWD (missing since the mid-80's, let's face it). You have the shape, and you can get anything from a poxy diesel to an LCR.

Spoon

I had a Scimitar back in 1984 and liked the feel of the driving position. It was one of the reasons I bought the Porsche 928S4 in 1989.

Brendan Hughes

Another great GT

Spoon

Not half Brendan. One of the best all round cars ever unless there was standing water about. Then it wasn't even a good boat.

douglasb

Thanks for all the opinions. I had my own thoughts before I asked the question and your opinions are along the same lines. My thoughts were-

Capri - the Calibra and Corrado were definitely in the same mould with "ordinary" base models through to high performance top of the range ones. However, they are no longer in production. The 200SX would certainly have appealed to former Capri drivers, but is also out of production.

I hadn't thought of the Monaro. Possibly a bit too expensive and with fuel costs likely to be a it too high to really be a Capri equivalent.

My first thought was the Toyota Celica - which I assume is based on Corolla mechanicals - however I'm guessing that there isn't really any space in the back seats, so that rules the Celica out. My other thought (as was a few of yours) was the RX8. OK, there's no "RX8 1300L" and it isn't based on mechanical parts from something else in the Mazda range, but it seems to be the nearest of today's cars to the Capri.

Scimitar GTE - like some of you, I was also thinking along the lines of "estate car, "prestige" badge, big engine", so BMW, Audi, Saab and Alfa were all considered. I ruled out the BMW and Audi on the basis that although the particular model that would fit the bill might not be too common the lesser models are (don't know if it's an urban myth but I've heard that BMW sold more 3 series in the UK in 2004 than Ford sold Mondeos).

I hadn't though of the BMW M Coupe, but it's also no longer in production.

The largest engined Alfa doesn't have a big enough engine (largest petrol engine that I can see listed today is 2 litres. Largest diesel is 2.4).

The Saab is the best contender so far, however, read on.....

I didn't think that the WRX Wagon was the closest Subaru; I thought the Legacy Spec B was closer. There were about 5000 Scimitars made between 1976-1980, the vast majority of which (95%) were right hand drive and destined for the UK market. Subaru sell about 9000 cars per annum in the UK. I guess that most will be Imprezas, Foresters and Outbacks so the number of Legacy estates sold will be fairly small and Spec B's are likely to be a small percentage of these, so there are maybe 300 Spec B's sold in the UK each year. So, it's exclusive enough and powerful enough, but it's probably too much of a "real" estate car to be a "new Scimitar".

My suggestion for the "closest fit" is the Jaguar X Type 3.0 V6 estate. As with all the suggestions there are compromises as it may be produced in too high volumes to qualify, but it does fit "mechanicals from humbler model, prestige badge, big engine" and is also more of a "lifestyle" estate than a load-lugger.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I don't know, a capri v6 would struggle on 20mpg round town - especially the old 3000

Modern closed-looped Sequential EFI and high output 3d mapped electronic DIS ignition systems, efficient combustion chambers, better gas flow on inlet and exhaust manifolds and high compression as per Monaro equates to 19mpg for the 5.7

2nd hand price now circa £20K, still abit too much, but give time

Poor Guy

I hope they bring out the GT6 mkIV concept

2000TLondon

Not really, but could be in the same ballpark as a GTE?

http://www.drivesrt.com/en/dodge/magnum/index.html

It may be too big! Cheap enough though at 20,000 pounds ish!

Obviously over here there is the mustang, the camaro, the GTO..........

douglasb

Following the answer to my 1977 car prices thread, I'd like to add a condition to the "name the equivalents" question.

If we take the Cortina 1.6L as the baseline in 1977/78, a Capri 2000GL cost 115% of the cost of the Cortina, a Capri 3000S was 140% and the Scimitar GTE was 214%.

If we take today's baseline as the list price of the cheapest Mondeo (1.8LX at £15800) that would make a Capri 2000GL £18191 today, the 3000S would be £22111 and the Scimitar GTE would be £33818. These figures seem realistic as the cheapest Jaguar XJ6 was 254% of the Cortina price, which corresponds to £41769 today - quite close to the actual price of the cheapest Jaguar XJ today(£39970).

So, in suggesting any modern alternatives, bear the prices in mind and try to keep the sugegstions to about the same or less (sorry, Brendan, but that rules out the Bentley and Maserati!).

Chris L

Cheeky sod

This thought sort of occured to me on the M25 this afternoon, following a Capri (and before I'd read this thread). Strictly speaking though, according to douglasb's original criteria, the RX8 doesn't count as it isn't based on a saloon - it was purpose built. I suppose in spirit it probably comes pretty close to the Capri though.

I like the look of Mazda's Kabura concept car, shown at the Detroit Motor Show. This would seem to be in the same mold as the RX8, but cheaper (which is closer to the concept of the Capri, as it was always a relatively cheap car). There are serious rumours that this car will go into production. There are some nice pictures of it in the March edition of Car Magazine (pg 26)

Edit to include a picture - not the best angle, still an interesting car though

Brendan Hughes

Douglas, Bentley and Mazzer were the closest I could get in body shape, but I was pretty sure they were a country mile out for pricing! I wouldn't agree with the RX8 for the reasons above - it's purpose built, it's not like you can get a 1.3L version.

Chris L

Mine's a 1.3 (well OK, it's really a 2.6, but that's what the Mazda blurb says!)

Brendan Hughes

OK, OK; I didn't think that through properly, did I?

douglasb

Brendan, I completely agree that the RX8 doesn't meet my original criteria, but it seems to be the nearest modern equivalent to the larger engined Capris.

GrahamG

loving the capri. not a fan of the Rx8.. its a failed replacement for an amazing car.. the RX7