Winston_Churchill

Good for them. They have saved us all.

That'll f**k Blair's little schemes right up!!

It's a shame that the people of this country cannot be relied upon to reach the right result in an election as we have recently seen.

Too thick, and too selfish!


Winston.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

He'll back out of the referendum now & when the "revised" constitution comes around again (as it will) we won't get another...

I'd say it played into his hands

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad that they voted non. Hopefully the revised constitution will takes ages to come out, and will be voted down again.

hedgehog

As Puff says quite often the political system sets up "straw men" which are designed to be burned down.

The EU will make changes and will produce press releases and spin saying "we are listening to the people and are making the changes they ask for" and then they will force through the stuff they want anyhow. Those who voted no will not get another chance as they will be told that everything has been changed for their benefit so there is no need for another vote and the EU will get what they want.

A similar process will take place with the £900 car tax that I posted about. People will react against it. The government will come out an say "it is an awful idea as it will hit the poor very hard but we, your friendly government, are listening and so we will go for a £500 car tax which is what we wanted in the first place anyhow." As all the defences will be built around the £900 figure this will neutralise them and the government will appear, to their supporters, to be listening to what people want. In truth all they will actually have done is conned people.

It is like buying a computer you don't need because it was half price. You spend all day thinking how well you did saving all that money but in the end you are still out of pocket and you still have a computer you don't need or really want. That is how the EU and the UK administration do business, they make you pay for something you neither need nor want and they also fool a lot of people into thinking that it was a good deal.

Spring Heeled Jack

Blair says it's now "time for reflection".

Excuse me? What's to 'reflect' on? Which part of the word 'NO' does he not understand?

borat52

I think the bit which leads him to say:
"come on, the people have stamped their feet, we have listened, you raised your voice, i raised mine, you threw some crockery..."

(at which point all the women and children have forgotten whats going on, thats if they realised in the first place, and instead are more worried about the prospect of clearing up some broken plates)

"... so lets reflect and agree that i was correct, you just didn't like the manner in which i told you so - tea and biscuits in brussels anyone?"

paulr

Not really,its unstoppable.
We took on 28 workers from Lithuania last week plus 2 polish drivers.
One of our factories has relocated to the Czech republic.

There's no going back.

They'll just fudge it or have another vote.

Chris L

Also bear in mind that technically, under clause 30 the constitution can actually be ratified by as little as 20 countries. It's a bit of a myth that it requires all 25 countries to say yes. That said, it would be very hard to get this ratification though - given the fact that France, as one of the 3 major economic powers of Europe has said 'no'. If it had been one of the smaller countries, such as the Netherlands (who are also likely to vote no) alone then I would say that they could still push through ratification.

Spring Heeled Jack

And the next step?

Yes, you and your colleagues are made redundant.

Leslie

50 years ago, Jean Monnet, the founding father of the Eu is on record as saying this:-

" Europe's nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversably lead to federation"

I think this says it all and also puts Edward Heath in a poor light when he conned the country into voting to join the EEC without telling us the grand plan. This lie has been perpetuated ever since.

I have no objection to a European trading agreement but do not agree with giving our sovereignty away to the dishonest people who are running it for their own purposes and losing our right to determine our country's future by the effective disenfranchisement brought about by federation which would be the result of voting for this treaty.

Les

Funkii Munkii

Food and Drink for Lewis

I'm suprised he hasn't emptied his sack all over this thread yet.

Moray

Maybe this thread is to complex for Mr Lewis He is old you know

paulr

No,there is a shortage of drivers so the Polish ones are welcome.
As for relocating to the Czech replublic,like it or not thats the way it is.

The next step is integration of currency,laws etc,etc.
Like i say,i just dont see any going back

paulr

Blahdy,blahdy blah.Talking rubbish again i see.

Its unstoppable.

Leslie

Please explain why that statement is rubbish Paulr.

I mean of course with unassailable facts rather than bland NL type soundbites which signify nothing!

Les

Leslie

Paulr,

How did I know you would duck that one?

Les

paulr

Its like explaining why 1+1=2.

You either get it or you dont.

OllyK

Bollock$. If it was that simple, there would be only one answer, everybody would agree and there could and would not be any dispute.

Care to try again by actually countering Leslie's points with some well thought out reasoning?

Leslie

Could not have put it better OllyK.

He has taken my personal opinion out of context for a start and his criticism has no bearing whatsoever on that opinion anyway.

Paulr,

If you want to shoot the post down you have to take it as a whole and come up with real facts instead of rude and meaningless comments.

You will find that NL style arguments just don't wash on this net.

Les

paulr

Fact1.
I voted Lib-Dem at the last election.
Fact2.
Treaty or no treaty,the company i work for are not going to close our new factory in the Czech Republic.
Fact3.
Its only paper,the power behind the EU is big business and that backs further integration and harmonisation.
Fact4.
All this talk about sovereignty and disenfranchisement (your words) means nothing compared to the real world of wages,business and jobs.Ask the man on the street what matters,its his kids,wife and job.Not some theoretical notion of sovereignty.

The EU is fundamentally about similair,like minded countries clubbing together for our own benefit,mostly economic.Whats wrong with that.

WRXPete

Sadly, the French may have said NO, but plenty have already said yes. I think this is perfect for Blair, but maybe for Britain too.....it would seem it's inevitable, so just as the constitution needs tweaking, VOILA, Britain takes on the presidency!!!

Of course, fundamentally the rest of Europe hates Britain because they need us a lot more than we need them....when America is your best mate, and all the best products come from Japan, who needs anything from Europe (unless you really want a Citroen C3 or Bosch Hammerdrill )

Leslie

Paulr,

Thanks for the reply.

Your vote is your own affair, but the main point is that you did anyway.

What your firm does is their own affair and if they want to outsource they are entitled to even if it is not good for employment here.

What is behind the Eu is a bunch of dishonest and unelected people who are only interested in their own personal advancement. They want as much power as they can get at the expense of the peoples of the European nations. The politicians see federation as a chance to get onto the gravy train and big business sees it as a similar opportunity. That of course is what this constitution treaty is all about.

Federation does mean handing over one's country to Brussels and effectively killing the power of our votes. We have only 10% of the MEP's in the Eu Parliament, What influence do you think we would have on our future in such a situation. All this "Influence in Europe" business is just so much "guff". The only power we have to affect our own futures is that of the vote and it is very powerful in that respect. Losing that is the biggest mistake we could make and the politicians would love that.

Just thinking about family and employment and forgettiing sovereignty would be a very bad mistake because giving the politicians that much power would mean loss of ability to protect our own freedoms in the future apart from a bloody revolution!

The recent votes in France and Holland demonstrate that the European countries do not think alike as far as running their own countries is concerned and never will do. We all know that a UK vote would go the same way and I believe that most of the other Eu countries who have not voted yet would do the same.

European free trade is a good thing but giving total control of our country to a bunch of unelected officials who cannot even run their own budget honestly since their accounts have not been acceptable by the auditors for ten years now is not the way to go as the Dutch and French have already demonstrated. the MEP's are also very good at maximising the money they make out of their allowances in a questionable manner.

I wonder where all that money which has disappeared from the Commissioners' accounts has gone? Its our taxes too! Its no good saying that the amounts concerned are not big enough to worry about, they are in fact and also there is a principle involved here.

You have to look a bit deeper into it Paulr and realise that you cannot trust politicians well enough to give them that much power without the redress of the ballot box..

Les