What happened to the bible thumping posts???
06 March 2005, 06:54 PM
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What happened to the bible thumping posts???
I kind of liked them.
I was hoping he was going to repost going off on one about fire and brimstone and tridents up the botty and suchlike.
Boo! Hiss!
astraboy.
I was hoping he was going to repost going off on one about fire and brimstone and tridents up the botty and suchlike.
Boo! Hiss!
astraboy.
06 March 2005, 09:34 PM
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what thread was that, the passion of christ one 
real christianity is islam my friend, what u have now is pagan roman teachings in christianity, and all done by st paul himself the anti christ and he was in bed with the romans
real christianity is islam my friend, what u have now is pagan roman teachings in christianity, and all done by st paul himself the anti christ and he was in bed with the romans
06 March 2005, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
what thread was that, the passion of christ one
real christianity is islam my friend, what u have now is pagan roman teachings in christianity, and all done by st paul himself the anti christ and he was in bed with the romans
real christianity is islam my friend, what u have now is pagan roman teachings in christianity, and all done by st paul himself the anti christ and he was in bed with the romans
astraboy.
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06 March 2005, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by astraboy
Doesnt bother me either way mate, what with being a satanist and all *sacrifices virgin*
astraboy.
astraboy.
i doubt u sacrifice virgins mate
u ever made luv to a virgin
let me tell u the best thing ever, me and my lady were young when we got married, we didnt know what to do, it was nerve wrecking and let me tell u the best thing ever to learn stuff
06 March 2005, 10:06 PM
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real christianity is islam my friend, what u have now is pagan roman teachings in christianity, and all done by st paul himself the anti christ and he was in bed with the romans
06 March 2005, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
Have you been reading the Da Vinci Code?
no mate but people know where christianity came from and by the way it wasnt even called christianity
haha, jesus didnt speak greek
christos means the annointed or appointed
as i can say uncle buck christos moderator, i appoint u a moderator for example.
the romans loped of the os and named him christ
someone appointed by God as in christos
and his name was easu or classical yeshua and in arabic eesa
but they latinized his name to jesus.
and gave him blue eyes and white skin more like hitlers germany than a palestinian jew.
in the new testament he has brown skin like me and hazel eyes and curly hair.
like an arab or original jew does
st paul was banished by the rest of the disciples, other disciples never called jesus God or our creator , he was a brother and a friend to him, st paul introduced the white God to the romans , anyone already used to roman Gods give them another white God makes no difference
original christians as in followers of jesus were butchered by pauline christians and totally ethnically and religiously cleansed
till this time the roman catholic church with the help of the israeli government aint let the original findings be known to man, they only let u see some of the dead sea scrolls coz most of it totally destroys the new testament teaching
original christians didnt worship christ
he was the messiah the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him
06 March 2005, 11:40 PM
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Muslim opinion challenged by third party...
Well the last bit was accurate at least 
"He was the Messiah, the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him"
I believe there are three main areas of common ground upon which Christians may stand with Muslims.
First, that there is one God—the Creator of all things.
The second area is the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God. The Bible makes this clear: "And He shall send Jesus Christ,…For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say to you" (Acts 3:20–22). The Qur’an (Koran) says: "Behold! The angel said ‘O Mary! Allah giveth you Glad Tidings of a word from Him. His name will be (Christ Jesus) the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah’" (Surah 3:45). In Surah 19:19, the angel said to Mary, "I am only a messenger of thy Lord to announce to you a gift of a holy son." Surah 3:55 says, "Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself." It is because of these and other references to Jesus in the Qur’an that a Muslim will not object when you establish that Jesus was a prophet from God.
This brings us to the third area of common ground. Moses as a prophet of God. Therefore, there should be little contention when Christians speak of God (as Creator), Jesus the prophet, and the Law of the prophet Moses.
Most Muslims do have some knowledge of their sinfulness, but few see sin in its true light. It is therefore essential to take them through the spiritual nature of the Ten Commandments.
While it is true that the Law of Moses begins with, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before Me," it may be unwise to tell a Muslim, at that point, that Allah is a false god.
Such talk may close the door before you are able to speak to his conscience. It is wise rather to present the Law in a similar order in which Jesus gave it in Luke 18:20. He addressed the man’s sins of the flesh. He spoke directly to sins that have to do with his fellow man.
Therefore, ask your hearer if he has ever told a lie. When (if) he admits that he has, ask him what that makes him. Don’t call him a liar. Instead, gently press him to tell you what someone is called who has lied. Try to get him to say that he is a "liar."
Then ask him if he has ever stolen something, even if it’s small. If he has, ask what that makes him (a thief).
Then quote from the Prophet Jesus: "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27). Ask if he has ever looked at a woman with lust. If he is reasonable, he will admit that he has sinned in that area.
Then gently tell him that, by his own admission, he is a "lying, thieving adulterer-at-heart." Say, "If God judges you by the Law of Moses on Judgment Day, will you be innocent or guilty?"
At this point, he will more than likely say that he will be innocent, because he confesses his sins to God. However, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54).
In other words, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins.
Imagine that a criminal is facing a 50,000 fine. He is penniless, so he sincerely tells the judge that he is sorry for a crime and vows never to do it again. The judge won’t let him go on the basis of his sorrow, or his vow never to commit the crime again. Of course, he should be sorry for what he has done, and of course, he shouldn’t break the law again. The judge will, however, let him go if someone else pays the fine for him.
Now tell him that Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and that Jesus was the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for the sins of the world.
Through faith in Jesus, he can have atonement with God. All his sin can be washed away—once and for all. God can grant him the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus Christ on the basis of His death and resurrection.
The uniqueness of Jesus of Nazareth was that He claimed He had power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2–6).
No other prophet of any of the great religions made this claim.
Only Jesus can provide peace with God.
This is why He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
God commands sinners to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, or they will perish.
To try to justify himself, your listener may say something like, "The Bible has changed. It has been altered. There are many different versions, but the Koran has never changed."
Explain to him that there are many different versions, printed in different languages and in modern English, to help people understand the Bible, but the content of the Scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
Tell him that the 100% accurate prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3 prove that this is the Book of the Creator.
Your task is to present the truth of the gospel.
It is God who makes it come alive (1 Corinthians 3:6,7).
It is God who brings conviction of sin (John 16:7,8).
It is God who reveals who Jesus is (Matthew 16:16,17).
All God requires is your faithful presentation of the truth (Matthew 25:21).
All spoken as third party believer
"He was the Messiah, the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him"
I believe there are three main areas of common ground upon which Christians may stand with Muslims.
First, that there is one God—the Creator of all things.
The second area is the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God. The Bible makes this clear: "And He shall send Jesus Christ,…For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say to you" (Acts 3:20–22). The Qur’an (Koran) says: "Behold! The angel said ‘O Mary! Allah giveth you Glad Tidings of a word from Him. His name will be (Christ Jesus) the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah’" (Surah 3:45). In Surah 19:19, the angel said to Mary, "I am only a messenger of thy Lord to announce to you a gift of a holy son." Surah 3:55 says, "Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself." It is because of these and other references to Jesus in the Qur’an that a Muslim will not object when you establish that Jesus was a prophet from God.
This brings us to the third area of common ground. Moses as a prophet of God. Therefore, there should be little contention when Christians speak of God (as Creator), Jesus the prophet, and the Law of the prophet Moses.
Most Muslims do have some knowledge of their sinfulness, but few see sin in its true light. It is therefore essential to take them through the spiritual nature of the Ten Commandments.
While it is true that the Law of Moses begins with, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before Me," it may be unwise to tell a Muslim, at that point, that Allah is a false god.
Such talk may close the door before you are able to speak to his conscience. It is wise rather to present the Law in a similar order in which Jesus gave it in Luke 18:20. He addressed the man’s sins of the flesh. He spoke directly to sins that have to do with his fellow man.
Therefore, ask your hearer if he has ever told a lie. When (if) he admits that he has, ask him what that makes him. Don’t call him a liar. Instead, gently press him to tell you what someone is called who has lied. Try to get him to say that he is a "liar."
Then ask him if he has ever stolen something, even if it’s small. If he has, ask what that makes him (a thief).
Then quote from the Prophet Jesus: "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27). Ask if he has ever looked at a woman with lust. If he is reasonable, he will admit that he has sinned in that area.
Then gently tell him that, by his own admission, he is a "lying, thieving adulterer-at-heart." Say, "If God judges you by the Law of Moses on Judgment Day, will you be innocent or guilty?"
At this point, he will more than likely say that he will be innocent, because he confesses his sins to God. However, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54).
In other words, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins.
Imagine that a criminal is facing a 50,000 fine. He is penniless, so he sincerely tells the judge that he is sorry for a crime and vows never to do it again. The judge won’t let him go on the basis of his sorrow, or his vow never to commit the crime again. Of course, he should be sorry for what he has done, and of course, he shouldn’t break the law again. The judge will, however, let him go if someone else pays the fine for him.
Now tell him that Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and that Jesus was the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for the sins of the world.
Through faith in Jesus, he can have atonement with God. All his sin can be washed away—once and for all. God can grant him the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus Christ on the basis of His death and resurrection.
The uniqueness of Jesus of Nazareth was that He claimed He had power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2–6).
No other prophet of any of the great religions made this claim.
Only Jesus can provide peace with God.
This is why He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
God commands sinners to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, or they will perish.
To try to justify himself, your listener may say something like, "The Bible has changed. It has been altered. There are many different versions, but the Koran has never changed."
Explain to him that there are many different versions, printed in different languages and in modern English, to help people understand the Bible, but the content of the Scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
Tell him that the 100% accurate prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3 prove that this is the Book of the Creator.
Your task is to present the truth of the gospel.
It is God who makes it come alive (1 Corinthians 3:6,7).
It is God who brings conviction of sin (John 16:7,8).
It is God who reveals who Jesus is (Matthew 16:16,17).
All God requires is your faithful presentation of the truth (Matthew 25:21).
All spoken as third party believer
07 March 2005, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by preacha
Well the last bit was accurate at least
"He was the Messiah, the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him"
I believe there are three main areas of common ground upon which Christians may stand with Muslims.
First, that there is one God—the Creator of all things.
The second area is the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God. The Bible makes this clear: "And He shall send Jesus Christ,…For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say to you" (Acts 3:20–22). The Qur’an (Koran) says: "Behold! The angel said ‘O Mary! Allah giveth you Glad Tidings of a word from Him. His name will be (Christ Jesus) the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah’" (Surah 3:45). In Surah 19:19, the angel said to Mary, "I am only a messenger of thy Lord to announce to you a gift of a holy son." Surah 3:55 says, "Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself." It is because of these and other references to Jesus in the Qur’an that a Muslim will not object when you establish that Jesus was a prophet from God.
This brings us to the third area of common ground. Moses as a prophet of God. Therefore, there should be little contention when Christians speak of God (as Creator), Jesus the prophet, and the Law of the prophet Moses.
Most Muslims do have some knowledge of their sinfulness, but few see sin in its true light. It is therefore essential to take them through the spiritual nature of the Ten Commandments.
While it is true that the Law of Moses begins with, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before Me," it may be unwise to tell a Muslim, at that point, that Allah is a false god.
Such talk may close the door before you are able to speak to his conscience. It is wise rather to present the Law in a similar order in which Jesus gave it in Luke 18:20. He addressed the man’s sins of the flesh. He spoke directly to sins that have to do with his fellow man.
Therefore, ask your hearer if he has ever told a lie. When (if) he admits that he has, ask him what that makes him. Don’t call him a liar. Instead, gently press him to tell you what someone is called who has lied. Try to get him to say that he is a "liar."
Then ask him if he has ever stolen something, even if it’s small. If he has, ask what that makes him (a thief).
Then quote from the Prophet Jesus: "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27). Ask if he has ever looked at a woman with lust. If he is reasonable, he will admit that he has sinned in that area.
Then gently tell him that, by his own admission, he is a "lying, thieving adulterer-at-heart." Say, "If God judges you by the Law of Moses on Judgment Day, will you be innocent or guilty?"
At this point, he will more than likely say that he will be innocent, because he confesses his sins to God. However, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54).
In other words, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins.
Imagine that a criminal is facing a 50,000 fine. He is penniless, so he sincerely tells the judge that he is sorry for a crime and vows never to do it again. The judge won’t let him go on the basis of his sorrow, or his vow never to commit the crime again. Of course, he should be sorry for what he has done, and of course, he shouldn’t break the law again. The judge will, however, let him go if someone else pays the fine for him.
Now tell him that Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and that Jesus was the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for the sins of the world.
Through faith in Jesus, he can have atonement with God. All his sin can be washed away—once and for all. God can grant him the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus Christ on the basis of His death and resurrection.
The uniqueness of Jesus of Nazareth was that He claimed He had power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2–6).
No other prophet of any of the great religions made this claim.
Only Jesus can provide peace with God.
This is why He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
God commands sinners to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, or they will perish.
To try to justify himself, your listener may say something like, "The Bible has changed. It has been altered. There are many different versions, but the Koran has never changed."
Explain to him that there are many different versions, printed in different languages and in modern English, to help people understand the Bible, but the content of the Scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
Tell him that the 100% accurate prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3 prove that this is the Book of the Creator.
Your task is to present the truth of the gospel.
It is God who makes it come alive (1 Corinthians 3:6,7).
It is God who brings conviction of sin (John 16:7,8).
It is God who reveals who Jesus is (Matthew 16:16,17).
All God requires is your faithful presentation of the truth (Matthew 25:21).
All spoken as third party believer
"He was the Messiah, the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him"
I believe there are three main areas of common ground upon which Christians may stand with Muslims.
First, that there is one God—the Creator of all things.
The second area is the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God. The Bible makes this clear: "And He shall send Jesus Christ,…For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say to you" (Acts 3:20–22). The Qur’an (Koran) says: "Behold! The angel said ‘O Mary! Allah giveth you Glad Tidings of a word from Him. His name will be (Christ Jesus) the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah’" (Surah 3:45). In Surah 19:19, the angel said to Mary, "I am only a messenger of thy Lord to announce to you a gift of a holy son." Surah 3:55 says, "Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself." It is because of these and other references to Jesus in the Qur’an that a Muslim will not object when you establish that Jesus was a prophet from God.
This brings us to the third area of common ground. Moses as a prophet of God. Therefore, there should be little contention when Christians speak of God (as Creator), Jesus the prophet, and the Law of the prophet Moses.
Most Muslims do have some knowledge of their sinfulness, but few see sin in its true light. It is therefore essential to take them through the spiritual nature of the Ten Commandments.
While it is true that the Law of Moses begins with, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before Me," it may be unwise to tell a Muslim, at that point, that Allah is a false god.
Such talk may close the door before you are able to speak to his conscience. It is wise rather to present the Law in a similar order in which Jesus gave it in Luke 18:20. He addressed the man’s sins of the flesh. He spoke directly to sins that have to do with his fellow man.
Therefore, ask your hearer if he has ever told a lie. When (if) he admits that he has, ask him what that makes him. Don’t call him a liar. Instead, gently press him to tell you what someone is called who has lied. Try to get him to say that he is a "liar."
Then ask him if he has ever stolen something, even if it’s small. If he has, ask what that makes him (a thief).
Then quote from the Prophet Jesus: "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27). Ask if he has ever looked at a woman with lust. If he is reasonable, he will admit that he has sinned in that area.
Then gently tell him that, by his own admission, he is a "lying, thieving adulterer-at-heart." Say, "If God judges you by the Law of Moses on Judgment Day, will you be innocent or guilty?"
At this point, he will more than likely say that he will be innocent, because he confesses his sins to God. However, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54).
In other words, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins.
Imagine that a criminal is facing a 50,000 fine. He is penniless, so he sincerely tells the judge that he is sorry for a crime and vows never to do it again. The judge won’t let him go on the basis of his sorrow, or his vow never to commit the crime again. Of course, he should be sorry for what he has done, and of course, he shouldn’t break the law again. The judge will, however, let him go if someone else pays the fine for him.
Now tell him that Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and that Jesus was the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for the sins of the world.
Through faith in Jesus, he can have atonement with God. All his sin can be washed away—once and for all. God can grant him the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus Christ on the basis of His death and resurrection.
The uniqueness of Jesus of Nazareth was that He claimed He had power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2–6).
No other prophet of any of the great religions made this claim.
Only Jesus can provide peace with God.
This is why He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
God commands sinners to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, or they will perish.
To try to justify himself, your listener may say something like, "The Bible has changed. It has been altered. There are many different versions, but the Koran has never changed."
Explain to him that there are many different versions, printed in different languages and in modern English, to help people understand the Bible, but the content of the Scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
Tell him that the 100% accurate prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3 prove that this is the Book of the Creator.
Your task is to present the truth of the gospel.
It is God who makes it come alive (1 Corinthians 3:6,7).
It is God who brings conviction of sin (John 16:7,8).
It is God who reveals who Jesus is (Matthew 16:16,17).
All God requires is your faithful presentation of the truth (Matthew 25:21).
All spoken as third party believer
Prove that jesus existed - ever.
Prove that he rose from the dead
Do it without the use of the bible
07 March 2005, 04:51 PM
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Hey hey
Originally Posted by OllyK
Good grief!
Prove that jesus existed - ever.
Prove that he rose from the dead
Do it without the use of the bible
Prove that jesus existed - ever.
Prove that he rose from the dead
Do it without the use of the bible
hEY dUDE
I really cant believe the questions here ?
"Prove that He existed" - really, any historian worth anything knows He existed...
Its just who He was that causes the rows ...
1. Liar - 2. Lunatic - or 3. Lord
(one of the the above answers is correct)
Did He rise from the dead ?
Thers a great book called "Who rolled away the stone" written by a initially agnostic guy out to disprove/defrock Jesus.
After looking at muchos evidence, he concluded that he was probably wrong and ended up believing.
An incredible read. And he didn't use the Bible too.
When U2 toured a couple of years back, they had a slogan across the back of the stage...
"Everything You Believe Is Wrong"...
You know sometimes we are so sure about things we know nothing about - yet have strong opinions based on heresay.
Personally I would never write a book on rocket science ...
07 March 2005, 05:01 PM
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nope
Originally Posted by ajm
Preacha..... do you have a son called Billy Ray?
Benjamin Jasper...
Cant remember the song... Billy Ray Cyrus or something was it ?
07 March 2005, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by preacha
Benjamin Jasper...
Cant remember the song... Billy Ray Cyrus or something was it ?
Cant remember the song... Billy Ray Cyrus or something was it ?
Dusty Springfield sang it I think
07 March 2005, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by preacha
hEY dUDE
I really cant believe the questions here ?
"Prove that He existed" - really, any historian worth anything knows He existed...
Its just who He was that causes the rows ...
1. Liar - 2. Lunatic - or 3. Lord
(one of the the above answers is correct)
I really cant believe the questions here ?
"Prove that He existed" - really, any historian worth anything knows He existed...
Its just who He was that causes the rows ...
1. Liar - 2. Lunatic - or 3. Lord
(one of the the above answers is correct)
Did He rise from the dead ?
Thers a great book called "Who rolled away the stone" written by a initially agnostic guy out to disprove/defrock Jesus.
After looking at muchos evidence, he concluded that he was probably wrong and ended up believing.
An incredible read. And he didn't use the Bible too.
Thers a great book called "Who rolled away the stone" written by a initially agnostic guy out to disprove/defrock Jesus.
After looking at muchos evidence, he concluded that he was probably wrong and ended up believing.
An incredible read. And he didn't use the Bible too.
When U2 toured a couple of years back, they had a slogan across the back of the stage...
"Everything You Believe Is Wrong"...
You know sometimes we are so sure about things we know nothing about - yet have strong opinions based on heresay.
"Everything You Believe Is Wrong"...
You know sometimes we are so sure about things we know nothing about - yet have strong opinions based on heresay.
07 March 2005, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
My point exactly, the story of christ is that, a story muddled together from a whole load of sources some 100 years or more after he was supposed to have died. It's hearsay at best.
07 March 2005, 05:13 PM
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Just done a little digging on "Who Moved the Stone?" and Frank Morison , assuming that is who you meant. Here is a rather different perspective of him. It would seem that he was not sceptical or an athiest, but started from the point that everything in the gospels was correct. That being the case, I wonder what conclusions he was likely to draw?
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/stone.htm
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/stone.htm
07 March 2005, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ajm
But Olly you have to have "faith"...
I'll keep spreading the "good word" where I go, somebody has to try and redress the balance a little
07 March 2005, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by preacha
Well the last bit was accurate at least
"He was the Messiah, the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him"
I believe there are three main areas of common ground upon which Christians may stand with Muslims.
First, that there is one God—the Creator of all things.
The second area is the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God. The Bible makes this clear: "And He shall send Jesus Christ,…For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say to you" (Acts 3:20–22). The Qur’an (Koran) says: "Behold! The angel said ‘O Mary! Allah giveth you Glad Tidings of a word from Him. His name will be (Christ Jesus) the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah’" (Surah 3:45). In Surah 19:19, the angel said to Mary, "I am only a messenger of thy Lord to announce to you a gift of a holy son." Surah 3:55 says, "Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself." It is because of these and other references to Jesus in the Qur’an that a Muslim will not object when you establish that Jesus was a prophet from God.
This brings us to the third area of common ground. Moses as a prophet of God. Therefore, there should be little contention when Christians speak of God (as Creator), Jesus the prophet, and the Law of the prophet Moses.
Most Muslims do have some knowledge of their sinfulness, but few see sin in its true light. It is therefore essential to take them through the spiritual nature of the Ten Commandments.
While it is true that the Law of Moses begins with, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before Me," it may be unwise to tell a Muslim, at that point, that Allah is a false god.
Such talk may close the door before you are able to speak to his conscience. It is wise rather to present the Law in a similar order in which Jesus gave it in Luke 18:20. He addressed the man’s sins of the flesh. He spoke directly to sins that have to do with his fellow man.
Therefore, ask your hearer if he has ever told a lie. When (if) he admits that he has, ask him what that makes him. Don’t call him a liar. Instead, gently press him to tell you what someone is called who has lied. Try to get him to say that he is a "liar."
Then ask him if he has ever stolen something, even if it’s small. If he has, ask what that makes him (a thief).
Then quote from the Prophet Jesus: "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27). Ask if he has ever looked at a woman with lust. If he is reasonable, he will admit that he has sinned in that area.
Then gently tell him that, by his own admission, he is a "lying, thieving adulterer-at-heart." Say, "If God judges you by the Law of Moses on Judgment Day, will you be innocent or guilty?"
At this point, he will more than likely say that he will be innocent, because he confesses his sins to God. However, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54).
In other words, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins.
Imagine that a criminal is facing a 50,000 fine. He is penniless, so he sincerely tells the judge that he is sorry for a crime and vows never to do it again. The judge won’t let him go on the basis of his sorrow, or his vow never to commit the crime again. Of course, he should be sorry for what he has done, and of course, he shouldn’t break the law again. The judge will, however, let him go if someone else pays the fine for him.
Now tell him that Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and that Jesus was the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for the sins of the world.
Through faith in Jesus, he can have atonement with God. All his sin can be washed away—once and for all. God can grant him the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus Christ on the basis of His death and resurrection.
The uniqueness of Jesus of Nazareth was that He claimed He had power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2–6).
No other prophet of any of the great religions made this claim.
Only Jesus can provide peace with God.
This is why He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
God commands sinners to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, or they will perish.
To try to justify himself, your listener may say something like, "The Bible has changed. It has been altered. There are many different versions, but the Koran has never changed."
Explain to him that there are many different versions, printed in different languages and in modern English, to help people understand the Bible, but the content of the Scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
Tell him that the 100% accurate prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3 prove that this is the Book of the Creator.
Your task is to present the truth of the gospel.
It is God who makes it come alive (1 Corinthians 3:6,7).
It is God who brings conviction of sin (John 16:7,8).
It is God who reveals who Jesus is (Matthew 16:16,17).
All God requires is your faithful presentation of the truth (Matthew 25:21).
All spoken as third party believer
"He was the Messiah, the chosen messenger of God to redeem his people if they followed him"
I believe there are three main areas of common ground upon which Christians may stand with Muslims.
First, that there is one God—the Creator of all things.
The second area is the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God. The Bible makes this clear: "And He shall send Jesus Christ,…For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say to you" (Acts 3:20–22). The Qur’an (Koran) says: "Behold! The angel said ‘O Mary! Allah giveth you Glad Tidings of a word from Him. His name will be (Christ Jesus) the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah’" (Surah 3:45). In Surah 19:19, the angel said to Mary, "I am only a messenger of thy Lord to announce to you a gift of a holy son." Surah 3:55 says, "Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself." It is because of these and other references to Jesus in the Qur’an that a Muslim will not object when you establish that Jesus was a prophet from God.
This brings us to the third area of common ground. Moses as a prophet of God. Therefore, there should be little contention when Christians speak of God (as Creator), Jesus the prophet, and the Law of the prophet Moses.
Most Muslims do have some knowledge of their sinfulness, but few see sin in its true light. It is therefore essential to take them through the spiritual nature of the Ten Commandments.
While it is true that the Law of Moses begins with, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before Me," it may be unwise to tell a Muslim, at that point, that Allah is a false god.
Such talk may close the door before you are able to speak to his conscience. It is wise rather to present the Law in a similar order in which Jesus gave it in Luke 18:20. He addressed the man’s sins of the flesh. He spoke directly to sins that have to do with his fellow man.
Therefore, ask your hearer if he has ever told a lie. When (if) he admits that he has, ask him what that makes him. Don’t call him a liar. Instead, gently press him to tell you what someone is called who has lied. Try to get him to say that he is a "liar."
Then ask him if he has ever stolen something, even if it’s small. If he has, ask what that makes him (a thief).
Then quote from the Prophet Jesus: "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27). Ask if he has ever looked at a woman with lust. If he is reasonable, he will admit that he has sinned in that area.
Then gently tell him that, by his own admission, he is a "lying, thieving adulterer-at-heart." Say, "If God judges you by the Law of Moses on Judgment Day, will you be innocent or guilty?"
At this point, he will more than likely say that he will be innocent, because he confesses his sins to God. However, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54).
In other words, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins.
Imagine that a criminal is facing a 50,000 fine. He is penniless, so he sincerely tells the judge that he is sorry for a crime and vows never to do it again. The judge won’t let him go on the basis of his sorrow, or his vow never to commit the crime again. Of course, he should be sorry for what he has done, and of course, he shouldn’t break the law again. The judge will, however, let him go if someone else pays the fine for him.
Now tell him that Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and that Jesus was the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for the sins of the world.
Through faith in Jesus, he can have atonement with God. All his sin can be washed away—once and for all. God can grant him the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus Christ on the basis of His death and resurrection.
The uniqueness of Jesus of Nazareth was that He claimed He had power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2–6).
No other prophet of any of the great religions made this claim.
Only Jesus can provide peace with God.
This is why He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
God commands sinners to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, or they will perish.
To try to justify himself, your listener may say something like, "The Bible has changed. It has been altered. There are many different versions, but the Koran has never changed."
Explain to him that there are many different versions, printed in different languages and in modern English, to help people understand the Bible, but the content of the Scriptures remains the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that God has preserved the Scriptures.
Tell him that the 100% accurate prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3 prove that this is the Book of the Creator.
Your task is to present the truth of the gospel.
It is God who makes it come alive (1 Corinthians 3:6,7).
It is God who brings conviction of sin (John 16:7,8).
It is God who reveals who Jesus is (Matthew 16:16,17).
All God requires is your faithful presentation of the truth (Matthew 25:21).
All spoken as third party believer
first of all mate debate with me when u stop practicing a pagan religion and the one religion all written by st paul
even st mathew didnt right st mathew all those books were written down 70 to 150 yrs after jesus, and alot of christian scholars say even some of the so call disciples didnt right them
just read the last few chapters about jesus rising
every single story is different and in Gods holy book incest is so promoted, its sickening
this aitn real christianity but a pauline version of pagan teachings stolen from mithraic teachings
08 March 2005, 07:33 AM
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Moses,
An honest question here. But was'nt Islam started in 622AD, some 600 odd years after the birth of Jesus. So how can Islam present a correct view of those events 5-600 years after those recorded by christianity were recorded, according to the above 70-150 years after.
It's like saying that we have a better and more accurate idea as to the tudor times, than the Elizabethans did.
An honest question here. But was'nt Islam started in 622AD, some 600 odd years after the birth of Jesus. So how can Islam present a correct view of those events 5-600 years after those recorded by christianity were recorded, according to the above 70-150 years after.
It's like saying that we have a better and more accurate idea as to the tudor times, than the Elizabethans did.
08 March 2005, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Neil Smalley
Moses,
An honest question here. But was'nt Islam started in 622AD, some 600 odd years after the birth of Jesus. So how can Islam present a correct view of those events 5-600 years after those recorded by christianity were recorded, according to the above 70-150 years after.
It's like saying that we have a better and more accurate idea as to the tudor times, than the Elizabethans did.
An honest question here. But was'nt Islam started in 622AD, some 600 odd years after the birth of Jesus. So how can Islam present a correct view of those events 5-600 years after those recorded by christianity were recorded, according to the above 70-150 years after.
It's like saying that we have a better and more accurate idea as to the tudor times, than the Elizabethans did.
08 March 2005, 11:04 AM
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Do people really believe that Adam and Eve **** still? How can they when every anthromorphic fact flies in the face of that story. Everything we know about humanity, history, archaeology, paeleantology, the works, dismisses that story as ridiculous and implausible. Please don't tell me people still think it's all true.
08 March 2005, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jap2Scrap
Do people really believe that Adam and Eve **** still? How can they when every anthromorphic fact flies in the face of that story. Everything we know about humanity, history, archaeology, paeleantology, the works, dismisses that story as ridiculous and implausible. Please don't tell me people still think it's all true.
Spend a bit of time on the religion and philosophy forum at http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/forum...p?s=&forumid=9 You could try some of the Xian fora like rapture ready and such like, but don't be surprised if you get banned, you are generally not allowed to ask any questions that question the bible or Xian beliefs.
Last edited by OllyK; 08 March 2005 at 11:15 AM.
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