Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Just got a NIP from Greater Manchester Police

Dont even remember it - dont remember anything flashing at me - but I was in the area at the time

The notes to the NIP have a question and answer section:

''Can I see the Photo evidence?'

'Not as a matter of routine. The evidence is to support a prosecution in court, the fixed penlaty process is to provide the means for driver to accept a Fixed Penalty as an alternative to court proceedings'

Should I say I was the driver get the £60 and 3 points and then can I request the photo?
What if they refuse to give me the photo or ask me to pay an admin fee for it? -could I refuse?

Ok - I know its easier to pay but I dont recall being got by a camera - I would have remembered a flash (*2)! - maybe it was a Truvelo (I was in quite a hurry/stressed in the week I was there!)

Comments?

DJ73

thought they only produce photo's when in court, but Quentin Wilson or somebody off top gear or ???? said they CAN'T blow photo's up to see who was driving

mad_dr

Thought Truvelos DID flash and from the front too?!

OllyK

But only in infra red which isn't visible to the human eye, unless you are a freak of course

Tiggs

write to them......say "i dont remember being there" and they will send you the picture........sooooo simple.

T

Neil Smalley

http://pepipoo.com/NewForums2/index.php look under judicial process for anything to so with PACE responses.

^Qwerty^

Send EVERYTHING by Special Delivery, not recorded. Also send it to the CC, not the Scamera Monkeys.

Also, if you don't name a driver by 28days, they may just go the 172 route when your time is up, regardless of any letters you have sent, and ones they have sent you back, including photo's. You'll then have to prove that you had no way of knowing who the driver was.

What happens appears to vary from area to area, so just be aware of what might happen if you decide not to name a driver within 28 days.

Jiggerypokery

Forward facing truvelos do flash visible light, they just have a filter to avoid blinding the victim.

Freak

oi

Daryl

I think you just have to show 'due diligence' or something like that

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Ok

Thanks

I think I'll fill the form in - sign it incorrectly and then ask for the Photo before - I'll also write something on the form itself

Pisses me off big time - but hey-ho

I just ordered one of those Road Angel's so that will stop this (it was nighttime and I wasn't concentrating on where the Scamera's were!)

Tiggs

be carefull...you have to show that you used due diligence to know who had your car and when.

its not good eneough to say, i've tried to remember but cant thinki who had the car....its your car- you should know.

T

^Qwerty^

As Tiggs has indicated, it's probably not as simple as you think to 'just' show due diligence. If you really do plan to go that route, then start building your case now. The longer you leave it, the harder it will be to build a solid story around the events of the day, because you will not be able to recall things.

If you do know who was driving, then the PACE route might be the better option, or you could pay up and take the points

WRXPete

There are some amazing common misconceptions here.
If the driver cannot be identified then the registered owner of the vehicle will be liable instead, so either way you lose. Just send the form back, sign it properly and take the ticket, unless you can be arsed to really go to court and fight it.....in which case all the photo's or other evidence will appear, and even if they don't show you clearly, they'll still stick you on for being the R/O.
And whilst you are in court they might ask why you didn't sign it properly(endeavouring to pervert the course of justice sir!!)

You said you were hurrying around, chances are you were speeding.

Having said all that, don't be at all afraid to ask the exact means you were caught and identified etc.....if you fancy a laugh, go into a station and ask someone to explain the Freedom of Information Act, and watch their face drop

Tidgy

May be wrong but i think they legally have to let you see the photo due to you having to have full disclosure, as in the case of "case 19" of website mentioned above. Also a few others where failure to produce evidence has resulted in the case either being thrown out or cps not continuing proccedings.

GC8

14 days before trial I believe, not on-demand.

Simonj

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Hi Fangoria

DO NOT send the form back or fill it in just yet. You have 28 days to play with.

Firstly, if you want to fight it dont use their form at all, do not fill in any section or sign it.

If you are not sure it was you, write a letter asking for a photo as to help identify the driver-thats all, dont waffle, keep it simple. Some police forces will send a photo, others wont. You are not legally entitled to anything yet.

As Neil Smalley says join pepipoo.com and get some free information.

Your best bet would be to use the Pace Witness statement on the pepipoo website.

My first question is What date was the alleged offence and what date did you receive the NIP-( you must recieve the NIP no more than 14 days after the offence for it to be valid) It must also be sent by first class post or better.

Are you the registered keeper of the vehicle. If yes then it is your responsibility to furnish the information of who was driving-see Pace statement.

If you dont fight it the money goes straight to the safety camera partnership and they use it to put up more cameras/mobile vans etc.

If you lose in court then the money goes to the government instead, but at least you are starving the scammers!

Andy

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the replies!!

I know that I was the driver, and yes I must have gone through a trap - first time I've gone through a trap and been caught though (Always used to get caught by the 'Police Car'!), doubt it was a mobile unit as I was only driving it in the dark!!

I think to save the hassle I'll just let the wife have the points - she's less likely to be caught speeding (whereas I am) - maybe not worth the hassle over £60 and 3 points

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Hi Fangoria

If you know it was you, then saying you will let the wife take the points is a big mistake. If you get found out, it is perverting the course of justice and possible 6 months in prison

Andy

Tiggs

Up to you...i got one and got off...easy if use your head...just dont be a sheep and do what "everyone" says will work....because it wont. The police are not idiots.

T

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - but I havent used my name and hey just cos I say it doesnt mean I've done it!

andypugh2000

When I got nicked for a motoring offence my solicitor said that they have to disclose "all" evidence that they plan to use against you in court so the answer is yes they have to show you a copy of the photo but.......... Thats if you want to take the matter to court, They offer you the easy pay up option of the NIP to save on costs and hastle all round so bend over and take it like a man unless you want to take the matter to court and see your sti on a nice photo

andy

john_s

iTrader: (1)

They are not obliged to send you the pics, though my mate wrote a polite letter asking for them, and they sent him a copy (Lancashire Scamming Partner-Whatever-Thingy-Ship).

Wasn't any help though, couldn't identify the driver from them. He then wrote and explained that both him and his wife had driven the piece of road on the day in question, and could they help anymore to identify the driver, as it would obviously be unlawful for him to make a false statement regarding who was driving....

He never heard anymore about it.

John.

GSM21

Hi Fang

how long from when you triggered the cam to your NIP arrived in Manchester?

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately it came within the 14 day period!