ajm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/4109255.stm

All over a play!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Remember....from the same City that gave us "Winterval"

Seems whatever minorities exist, they are more vocal than the majority

Although IMO, most Sikhs I know are top geezers (mandatory comment inserted to protect from any racist type PCism)

unclebuck

Hey, lay off the Sikhs!!

They are the good guys... in my book anyway. They seem to have a genuine grievence.

It's the politically correct idiots that thought it would be OK to stage the play that are to blame IMO

ajm

Regulator

I don’t know how religious you are, but I feel that most religions would be outraged at such scenes begin preformed in a Gudwara (Sikh temple).
I do not think its unreasonable for the script to be changed. And may I remind you that this response was not unexpected seeing as the religion has undergone persecution in its infancy, and Sikhism fought its was through, literally.
So I think that you should put yourself in the mindset of a religious person, and then think about how you would feel.
(not trying to be a jerk here)

dba

so which religions are exempt from open discussion then? should the media be exempt from exploring the accusations of paedophilia in any religion,including Sikhism/Islam? these accusations exist,and have done for a while,so how are they to be debated openly if we can't even stage a play?

Petem95

The violence does reflect badly on sikhs, as they do seem to be alright in general and you'd expect peaceful protest from them. Can understand why theyre unhappy tho.

ajm

You are asking me to abandon all rationality. What we have here is yet another group of religious people causing violence in the name of their religion in a manner that contradicts everything their religion apparently stands for. Its mindless hypocrisy.

A Sikh woman has a written a play they feel offended by. Big deal. They don't have to go and watch it. It's not like they are actually losing anything by it, they just want to censor what goes into the eyes and ears of the people wanting to see the play.

It seems to me the theatre comapny has bent over backwards to satisfy them, even going to the lengths of forcing the audience to listen to the protestors' propoganda before every performance so both sides of the story are available, yet this isn't good enough for them. They must insist on complete censorship of the unfavourable side of the story by demanding the play is cancelled.

Religion, by its very nature, only serves as a barrier to compromise and this is a perfect example of that.

Regulator

If you read the artical, they dont demand the play is canceled, just the scenes inside the temple, which afterall demands so much respect in sikhism that shoes are taken off and heads covered, be removed as not to offend the majority of Sikhs.
Ofcourse its easy to say its written by a sikh, whats the fuss about. But have you ever stop to think maybe she does not share main stream views?
Its also very easy to make this into a PC debate, as above. Commenting what religions are open to discuss? I would be more than happy to discuss Sikhism, but i am more than outraged at some content of the "Play".
Might come across as a jerk, but to some religion still matters.

dba

not a jerk at all,religion does matter,to a lot of people

Should Father Ted be banned? where do you draw the line?

moses

im with my punjabi brothers with this, it was sickening what rep done with this play, they should be punished, cant believe they even thought of doing that from a gurdawara even in a play.


been a bad week, first the nativity scene in madame taussades which was sicking, becks and posh as mary and joseph and then that corpus christi gay play against jesus, sick b@stards should def be punished big time

ajm

The point is that the protestors are trying to take away the freedom for people to watch the scenes and form their own opinions. That is the sticking point here, they want to force their values upon the rest of us without respecting the fact that we each have our own views.

moses

ajm i cant believe im hearing this from u

its nothing to do with religion, what has gay jesus got to do with freedom, if i had my way i would cut their fecking hands off for this blasphemy

ajm

Its really quite simple... I find clowns annoying to the extent of being offensive, therefore I don't go to the circus. They find this play offensive so I would suggest they don't go and see it.

I can't see any reason for them to be running riot in the street outside simply because most of us unreligious people don't find it offensive. What IS offensive is a religious group deciding what the rest of us can and cannot see when we go to a play.

Yes I do understand their grievance, but they are not suffering any material loss as a result of this play going ahead, they have voiced their opinions which they are entitled to do, but what they are NOT entitled to do is choose what I or anyone else can and cannot watch!

SinghSuperStud

iTrader: (2)

Hi,

as a Sikh,whilst I don't agree with violence to base a play such as this in a Gurudwara is not needed. I think what makes it worse is that the writer is of a Sikh background. If I'd known there were going to nbe demonstrations then I would've been there too!

This is not religion causing problems but instead people who are happy to rub people up the wrong way in the name of artistic licence.

Jai

Regulator

I think as far as talk like "cut their hands off" , extremist views in effect, just make things worse. I think you would find if the scenes that relate to the Holy Temples, (Gudwara's) were removed, most would be happy. I did not hear you outcry when the nativity scene was vandalised. No comments of "The Christians are at it now.." were made. I think it is unfair to put all sikhs in the violence for religion view going around now. I think it is a fair right for Sikh societies to have say where Holy Temples are used in plays.

ajm

When I first saw the film "The Patriot" depicting the English as belligerent, back stabbing, ungentlemanly murderers I was offended (even if it might be true ) but I didn't see fit to take to the streets with my pitchfork and burning torch!

I had a good old moan to anyone that would listen, switched the channel over and reccomend people don't bother watching it.

I would suggest these people do the same.

Regulator

And i would like to add, its not only punjabi's whom are sikh. I admit Sikhism is a relatively young religion, but i have seen followers from all races.

dba

so should Father Ted be banned then?

Regulator

How would i know?

ajm

The religion in question is actually irrelevant to me.... I view all acts such as this (that have been motivated by religion) with equal contempt, and that includes acts by christians, I have no allegiances in that respect.

Regulator

I resent the implication in your first post, that Sikhs are conducting violent practices. Last time i checked, protest was allowed in this country. I admit there may be some whom are intent on creating violence, but because they are sikh, it is no reason to implicate all sikhs are like that.

SinghSuperStud

iTrader: (2)

Hi again

I agree with Regulator, as the news article describes, if the Gurdwara scenes are cut or rewritten it'd put a simple end to the problem. Certain things are close the hearts of people, whether they be partners, family or religion. As long as the protest remains lawful then we're entitled to plead a case.

I visit the Birmingham temple from which the Spokesperson is from, I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and can vouch that they are a very peaceful organisation and a credible voice for the Sikh community in the UK. As a UK Sikh I'm proud that we've become a part of the fabric of the UK whilst still retaining our identity, there have been problems in the past (the mandatory wearing of helmets for motorbike riders etc and the problem with those who wear a turban etc) but we've come a long way.

I can see people saying that religion is the root of problems. However, I know that we're taught that no religion is bad and even our Holy Book contains writings from saints/figures of different faiths which is a thing unheard of previously. I doubt you'll ever find another group of people who believe in the unity of mankind in the same way we do, to the extent that our prayers are simple peotic and encompass humanity in its many forms, not just those that are Sikh.

"God created light of which all the beings were born. Recognise the whole human race as one"
-Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji

http://www.sikhs.org/gurdwara.htm for info on the Gurdwara

Jai

dba

Its a simple enough question.I suppsoe its ok to offend Catholics,they must be used to it by now,after all,its 30 years since Dave Allen dressed up as the Pope in suspenders.I don't dispute you are offended,and I respect that,but how are we supposed to live in a tolerant society when all we are to do is tread on egg shells or end up rioting in the street?

Regulator

No, i think people should not go out of their way to rub people the wrong way, writting, preparing and co-ordinating a play is not an accidental occurance. Something as simple as consideration, which seems to be lost in this modern society, could have avoided the whole situation.
Im not condoning offensive actions towards Catholics, its up to Members of the Catholic Church as to what they do about it.

ajm

I accept that I didn't say some Sikhs, but then neither did I say all Sikhs, that was just the way you interpreted it. I realise that only a minority of Sikhs would want to cause violence, however the majority would still seek to remove my right to view the play as it stands. That is my primary issue in this thread.

ali_j

i would like to add to that and say not all punjabis are sikh also.

SinghSuperStud

iTrader: (2)

We're not asking for people to tread on eggshells, but to exercise some degree of decency and change/cut the offensive scenes. I am all for freedom of speech etc and believe that people should always ask questions instead of blindly follow but I think the thing we're asking for is not major !

Jai

Regulator

Do you not think it is reasonable for Holy Temples to be exempt from such gratuitous scenes in a play?

billsandhu

By the very fact that you moaned, you protested, whether alone or collectively its still a protest. Do we assume that now you are enforcing your views upon the rest of us, not allowing us to form our own opinion? Maybe you didnt take to the streets but you certainly had your say.

People are perfectly within their rights to protest and should not be frowned upon. The violence i do not agree with.

A gurdwara is a place of worship and not a stage for dramatisation, especially knowing it would cause controversy. The issues raised in the play certainly need to be adressed, but do you believe the writer would have had as much exposure had the setting been changed, i dont think so. Its all about the writer's personal gain.