Regulator

Point well taken

edited to say, Its not an advertised fact that Up to or more than half of Punjab lies within modern day Pakistan. Thus, it would be foolish to assume all Punjabis are Sikh, or have any religion to that point.

ajm

No, I think it is totally irrational, but that is just my personal opinion as someone not aligned with any religion.

I'm no arty farty type but I thought the idea of art, be it sculptures, paintings or plays is to challenge boundaries whilst letting judgement be by the people who view them.

Some might be offended, some may think it is genius but none should be denied from the freedom to make that choice.

Regulator

Thats going into an entirely different argument as far as art is concerned.
But do you not think it is a reasonable request for the place of worship be removed from the play with the current circumstances?

ajm

Exactly, I'm all for letting people have their say, just like I did. But no, you shouldn't assume that I "enforced" my view on anyone. To do that I would have to take it upon myself to forcibly prevent people from seeing the film, or force the producers to rewrite the film, just like this group of protestors are trying to do to the play.

dba

I am not objecting to the protests.It just seems excessive censorship when people who have no intention of going to this play can dictate whats in it.

Regulator

I think you ould agree that protesting is a way of projecting ones views, and thus not enforcing it. No one is holding a gun to the producers heads' to force them to change the script to the best of my knowledge.

dba

do you think its reasonable to stay at home and not watch it?

ajm

No I don't, although I do understand their reasons for requesting it.

Regulator

dba, i think you would find that censorship would involve Government deciding the Play was unreasonable. I also cannot work out how projecting ones views is linked to Dication of views?

dba

and no one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to go and watch this play

ajm

They are turning up en masse causing disruption to people going to see the play, causing damage to the theatre and then there was the violence. I would say they are putting a little more pressure on the theatre company than a simple "reasonable request".

billsandhu

So where do we draw the line?

Regulator

Do you think its reasonable for me to ask you to leave the thread? comments like that are irrelevant, but can be thrown around all day.
As a follower of the religion i find the scenes offensive and have the right to project my views in any legal way i wish.
Ajm, thanks for the understanding. I can sympathise with your argument, but find myself siding with the protestors on this one.

dba

and rightly so,if there is any incitement of racial hatred or any discrimantion on religous grounds,but this is an artistic representation of someones views,for anyone who wishes to go and watch it. Its clearly dictation of views,they have demanded they offending scenes are removed,yet they have no intention of going in the first place

dba

where have I argued with that? you keep repeating yourself for no reason at all.I repeat,I have no arguement against the protest,none at all.I have an objection against artistic censorship by people who have no intention of going to see this play.

Regulator

I think your understanding of Dicatorship lacks some. If there was a Sikh government in power, and they then commanded that the play be stopped, it would be a dictatorship of views. But as it is, its a protest.

dba

I agree entirely.So the protest can continue and so can the play and everyone is happy

Regulator

I think its quite obvious to see that we are not going to agree on this subject, and i gracefully bow out of the discussion.
Interperet this as want, chickening out, admitting defeat, or as it is, simply acknowledging that there is not going to be agreement on the issue in a large community.

Sith

It's only a temple, I doubt anyone here would give a damn if it was set in a church. Some people get waaaaay to het up about a religion.

SinghSuperStud

iTrader: (2)

I'm with BillSandhu and Regulator on this one, in it's current form it is a protest but I won't apologise for saying that I consider this an insult, similar to blasphemy as said by moses (not THE moses ) . I demand the scenes be changed and don't make no bones about it Whether somebody'll listen to me is another matter but I'm entitled to voice my opinion, particularly when iti nvolves something I feel strongly about.

Jai

Bubba po

There are plenty of examples of murder, rape and other crimes carried out in Western churches as part of dramatic scenes in films and plays. What we need to know is what the context is. Usually, showing such a crime in a setting such as a church or other place of worship serves to accentuate the enormity of the crime being committed, not to belittle the religion or show its adherents in a bad light. Just because certain elements of society resort to violent protest to secure what they want, namely the bowdlerisation of legitimate drama in a free country, is no reason to cave in just to keep the peace.

dba

Not chickening out at all,I came to the same conclusion,but i'm one bloke btw,and i don't speak for any community,only myself.We agreed the protests should stay,and we agree that everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion (after all,this is a free democracy),we just disagreed on whether the play should be censored.So 2 out of 3 aint bad

billsandhu

We will never all agree, its life and thats what makes it interesting. This play quite clearly causes great offence to the sikh nation. Disagreeing/debating is all good and healthy, but blatant offence is really not acceptable. If the REP wish to continue running the play, then IMO they are sending out a clear message to the sikhs of "we dont give a damn".

Regulator

Yeh, i thought the discussion had reached its end, and could possibly get childish. If it was on the other side of the fence, I could see myself arguing for freedom of artistic ideas and such, so no biggie

MadGrip

This is getting absolutely rediculous

do I as a christian demand the removal of scenes from films / plays ??

NO

I see it as a freedom of speech and expression , and these other religions "That take offense" should see it in the same light hearted manner

for example:

The scenes that are filmed within the christian church in "End Of Days" which sees the devil rise up in the christian church...

c'mon

see it as its meant to be seen, not real, its a film / play / make believe

religion it seems ( especially from the middle east & India) is something that should not be frowned upon or laughed at, but how many films/ plays have they watched that are set in a church and thought nothing of it

be more open minded I say, and take things as they are

nothing will come from it, give it a few weeks and no one will even remember it

if you totally believe in your faith , then you'll know that any thing thats against it will not prevail

sit back, chill out & laugh at it in the thought that you are right

violence & protest only stir up violence & protest


Phil ( been on the stella, as if yo couldn't tell)

Happy Xmas all

blueone

Is the Play stating that the offending behaviour occurs in all Sikh Temples? Or is it just a representation of an incident(s) in one Sikh Temple, that is part of the story line of the Play in question?

Schumacher

**Puts up hand and says I'm a sikh!**

What kind of title is that for a thread?


-Schumacher

Brit_in_Japan

Question: do the REP have the right to change the location of the offending scenes?

Maybe they can request the director and/or playright to make a change, but can they enforce such a change? As a last resort they could say change it or we'll close the play I suppose.

Also I read that there had been a long dialogue between the REP and the Sikh community before the play started. All audiance members are given a letter on entering the theatre to say that the Sikh community find the play offensive and go on to describe why. Rather than try and stop the play wouldn't it have been far more effective to just protest peacefully and not give the playright the oxygen of publicity?

imi

Freedom of Speech...LOL

Just like the recent saga in madame tussards with Beckham, Victoria, Trevor Macdonald and Bush playing the NATIVITY.....

Should we turn a blind eye to this as well....

Come on...Have some respect.

BTW: I didnt see the Sikh program so cant and wont comment on that.

johnfelstead

thanks god i am an athiest.

censorship of any kind for an adult is bad, m'kay.