the moose

Looking back to when you grew up, the 1970's, there was a particularly virulent form of trades unionism, huge inflation, declining productivity, and rampant racism.

Attitudes towards people with other than heterosexual inclinations (pure vanilla at that) were extremely negative.

The police force was corrupt, lazy, and largely ineffective.

The prevalence of drink driving was high, as was that of wife-beating.

Life expectancy was around 69.1 (men) and 75.3 (women) in 1971, whereas the comparable figures now are 76.2 (men) and 80.6 (women).

Tax rates were 42% in 1971 for Corporation tax, 39% basic rate on income tax, 75% maximum (though I think this was introduced in 1972).

Three day weeks? Remember those?


You're right, it's not the country you grew up in.

TelBoy

Appreciate the lecture, moose, but i *was* focusing on religious senitivities...

the moose

Not a lecture, just pointing out that everything changes.

I'm very pleased that the decline in (Christian) church attendances has accelerated massively since I was a lad, and confidently predict exactly the same to happen with other religions. I know many notionally Jewish people who wouldn't know one end of a synagogue from another, but we need a few more generations of Anglo-Sikh/Muslims before the awful depravity that is Britain can wreak havoc on their communities, as some of their leaders seem to believe.

TelBoy

But from where i'm sitting, the country is becoming MORE religious, in an unwelcome and even slightly threatening way, from non-traditional quarters. That's what upsets many UK citizens.

the moose

Hang on a minute though, you're only seeing the ones the media want you to see.

Do you feel threatened when you drive past a synagogue on a Saturday, and see some (to my mind) funny-looking blokes with an unhealthy hat fetish? I doubt it. Similarly, if you pass a temple at kicking-out time, there's a lot of turban action going on, but nothing remotely worrying.

The Muslims I'm unsure of - nothing against the religion, but you have to be suspicious of teetotallers - the Sally Army always give me the creeps, if I'm honest.

Overall, ALL religions worry me, none more so than Ulster's finest, Dr Iain "Tolerant" Paisley. after all, we're had armed insurrection for 30 years in Ireland over religion ..... nothing new about zealots perverting their faith to justify their cause.

Leslie

I am proud to be British and also have the normal British sense of values. These values seem to be disappearing now to be replaced with those of self centred behaviour, greed and no thought for others. This is backed up by many of the posts on this thread if you read them with a completely open mind.

What has happened to tact and the willingness to go through life without being offensive to others. Why is it necessary to insult others for their beliefs. Is it some kind of macho thing to make the people who do that feel superior in some way. Or is it a way of bullying.

I think that it is just common decency to avoid doing something which is not really necessary but will be grossly offensive to other people. All these excuses about free speech and censorship are absolute nonsense in a situation like this. This is not PC, but simply behaving in a responsible manner. Where is the "artistry" in producing a play like this and setting it somewhere where it is a deep insult to someone else. There must be one of UB's hidden agendas associated with such an action!

It is just down to thinking of others who have done nothing previously to hurt anyone and who feel it is a terrible insult to their way of life. Surely the writer realises this and deserves to be heavily criticised for it.

There is nothing wrong in respecting the beliefs of other people. There is no way that is a "PC" attitude. Its a matter of "live and let live". Its the sort of attitude that promotes a harmonious existence after all and I don't apologise for promoting that.

Les

Jap2Scrap

Absolutely no doubt that you are 100% correct. Hindsight is wonderful and I agree that setting the play in a place that would provoke outrage and a sense of insult was at best tactless and at worst a shameful attempt to give the piece a high profile (something that's definitely worked). Unfortunately the play has been written. So what to do now? It's definitely wrong to censor something in this way. For all the inherent wrongness of scripting it originally I cannot subscribe to the concept that censorship is good. Protest by all means. Let your feelings be known as is the right of everyone in this 'free' country. Violence (albeit a minority) is never, ever acceptable and I'm afraid the mindless few have ensured the one thing that they really didn't want. Fame for the play. Let's be honest, who here had heard of this play before the media broke this story?

Brendan Hughes

The Christians are at it now...

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/sto...384102,00.html

(Jerry Springer opera...)

austen_wrx

Ok, lets see if there are violent protests this time??

NotoriousREV

How on earth can people complain about something they haven't even seen? Let's say a total of 20,000 people have complained. That's 0.03% of the population trying to determine what we all watch!

silver sonic

iTrader: (4)

my opinion is if you dont,t like the content of a play or whatever .
then don,t kick off about it , just don,t pay your money and go see it .
and leave people alone who do!
its not on, people dictating what other people should be allowed to see!

Deep Singh

NOT complaining about the way of life here. Far from it,using a long established tradition of the right to protest in this country,peacefully of course. Those who were violent cannot be condoned.
As for 'feet under the table', Sikhs have been in this country for over 350 years. Also hundreds of thousands killed in the second world war(Battle of Casino),biggest volunteer force army in the history of the world,numerous Victoria Crosses won by Sikhs.Sikhs fought bravely with the British while many European allies were collaborating
We have a colourful,loyal but not perfect history. I could go on,but I reckon like most,you are probably not interested in facts that d'ont support your view of us being a group of wingeing immigrants

Deep Singh

Senior_AP

I don't think Sikhs are wingeing immigrants at all. So, if there was any aim in my direction I am dismissing that now.

Also, suggesting people are racist (which your above post has basically done to Jap2Scrap) isn't a good idea unless you're pretty damn sure that it is the case Deep Singh.

gsm1

Errr...where did he say he was racist?

Very Telling!

Petem95

Sikhs are generally well respected by Brits and have strong links with the British going back hundreds of years as Deep Singh mentions. Also I think this thread just really shows that people are surprised that they resorted to violence on this occasion as you wouldnt expect it of them, even tho its understandable that they might be very pissed off.

Any resentment probably comes from ignorant people who assume everyone of middle-eastern appearence is Muslim. When do you ever hear about Sikhs demanding we make changes to better accomodate them or whatever? never.

And certainly cant argue with that.

Senior_AP

"I could go on, but I reckon like most,you are probably not interested in facts that d'ont support your view of us being a group of wingeing immigrants"

Deep Singh

Did'nt accuse anybody of being racist. Just pointing out the fact that some people just wait for an excuse to launch into a 'coming to my country,feet under the table' type speech. I think my comments were fair and I stand by them. I d'ont ever accuse anybody of being racist as I am not perfect myself. I do however accuse people of being ignorant to facts and history,which Jap2 obviously is.
Pleasantly suprised by most peoples knowledge on this board as I've seen in the above threads.
For the record, I am very patriotic about being BRITISH and expect NO special treatment,no handouts etc etc. I also beleive in stronger controls on immigration.

Senior_AP

.....then you and I are on similar wavelengths.

When I reference scummy immigrants that is exactly waht I mean. I do not include yourself and/or any other from a non-British background that is a respectable member of the community.

My gripe is non Brits coming here and f$cking things up. THAT is what pisses me off.

(Brits being the same also annoys me).

Deep Singh

Suprisingly enough I think we do have something in common. I despise anybody of any race not pulling their weight in this(my/our) country.
My problem is that some less intelligent people(not on this board neccesarily) cannot make the differentiation you have made.
I look forward to further debate

Deep Singh

Must also add there are probably more scummy whites f8cking up the country then there are immigrants. I mean total numbers nationally. Do you agree?

Senior_AP

Agreed - that's for sure. What causes all the hatred is when it's "seen to be" immigrants that are causing it, people say the age old "they come 'ere, nick our jobs, bring their third world attitude's ove here, think the world owes them a living" etc etc and so on.

I'm not a racist - however a large propaortion of immigrants in the country is a reason behind the way Britain is becoming/become. Due to I think 2 reasons:

1. People naturally get defensive when they see what they perceive to be "non brits" making a go of it/doing better than them.

2. The minority of immigrants that tarnish the majority with the lazy brush.


Not the fault of the immigrants in many/most cases - it's just human nature to dislike what is different.

Britain is an angry country because of this imo. Not strictly the fault of the immigrants - more a case of human nature.

....and that folks is why I don't like Britain much nowadays (amonsgt other things).

Deep Singh

I feel govt policies also make things worse. Aswell as lax immigration policy there is little thought to integrating them. Instead they are all thrown together in areas were the indigenous(sp?) white population is already having problems with housing,education,jobs etc. Though I d'ont condone ignorant racism I can understand why these guys get resentful.

Senior_AP

Bang on DS.