Protest against river access restrictions
18 November 2004, 11:20 PM
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Protest against river access restrictions
Any paddlers amongst you? If so, hope you can make it to Llangollen on Sunday @ 11am to show how pi$$ed off we all are that we can't get on any decent rivers in England and Wales due to selfish landowners - the Dee in Llangollen being a case in point.
It's ridiculous that the local economy there is missing out on £1000's from canoeists because landowners further up the river won't allow passage. We don't damage land, don't scare fish, and are generally much less snooty than ramblers, lol.
The demo will be peaceful and friendly, and is being organised by Jim Jayes, ex-British Team Slalom competitor. Please read his press release below -
Cheers,
Steve
It's ridiculous that the local economy there is missing out on £1000's from canoeists because landowners further up the river won't allow passage. We don't damage land, don't scare fish, and are generally much less snooty than ramblers, lol.
The demo will be peaceful and friendly, and is being organised by Jim Jayes, ex-British Team Slalom competitor. Please read his press release below -
DEE DAYS 20/21 NOVEMBER 2004
Fair Access to Rivers.
12th November, 2004
Press Release: DEE DAYS 20/21st November 2004
Access to the countryside is now a reality, but why does it not include rivers?
Despite the problems of children and adults spending too much time on TV and Computer Games and the growing obesity problem, one fantastic sport is being denied to them due to an antiquated situation in this country. Most of our rivers, a prime leisure venue, are closed to all forms of boating and canoeing, mainly due to the fishing lobby. In fact 98% of the rivers in England and Wales have no public access for canoeists whatsoever.
Canoeing is a sport which is both an excellent form of exercise and is extremely ecologically friendly, producing absolutely no harmful emissions. It encourages the youth of today to get outside and into the countryside like no other sport can.
Over 2,000,000 people try canoeing each year but most fail to carry on due to the lack of venues to paddle. We should be encouraging these people, not putting obstacles in their way. It is time for the government to take action if it is serious about promoting healthy living and making the countryside available for all.
We took a silver medal in the men’s kayak and a bronze in the ladies‘, at this years Olympic Games, but our athletes have to train abroad most of the time due to the lack of access in this country. This frustration is not only there for the competitive canoeist but also for the recreational paddler.
Jim Jayes of JJ Canoeing and Rafting, Llangollen, is organising a protest weekend to raise public awareness of the problems facing the sport. They have invited every canoeist and their supporters to attend and are expecting between two and five thousand canoeists to be there. As well as canoeing events throughout the weekend on their stretch of the RIVER DEE they will also have a mass march starting at the International Pavilion Llangollen, 11am on Sunday 21st November.
The aim is to make the public aware of the current access situation and the damage it is doing to the tourist economy and the sport of canoeing. We hope that this will in turn encourage the government to look again at the whole issue, and improve the situation to bring us into line with Scotland and the rest of Europe where most rivers are open to the public, in the way that the Countryside Bill has opened up the countryside to Ramblers.
Contact.Jim Jayes.
Tel/Fax: 01978 860763 E-mail enquiries@jjraftcanoe.com
Website http://www.jjraftcanoe.com
We will be organising a weekend event in Llangollen to highlight the lack of river access.
The aim is to make the public aware of the current access situation and the damage that it is doing to both the economy of the town and canoe sport as a whole. It is hoped that this issue is of such importance to canoeists that we get the largest number of participants in one place ever! We are looking to get full media coverage of the event and to make a major positive impact on the public perception of the problem.
The provisional timetable is:
Saturday, Free Fun Rodeo Event, plus a cardboard boat stopper ride at Mile End Mill.
(Entries in by 12pm on the day.)
(We are also looking for somebody to organise a floodlit slalom on Sat evening 20th November. Let us know if you can help? Enter by 2pm on the day.)
Saturday, Evening Party, Mile End Mill.
Sunday 11am-1pm Official Protest March in Llangollen Town
Starts outside the Eisteddfod (International Pavilion) 11am.
Bring your banners, have your say!
Access to the event/party and the Mile End Mill site is free all weekend.
Please be aware that there will be a large police and parking warden presence in town for this weekend. There is parking at Mile End Mill for the events there. Extra parking has also been organised at the Smurfit factory 200 metres from the Mill and at the Eisteddfod International Pavilion. Please park considerately, as we are not the only users on this weekend. Please do not enter the factory yard at Smurfits.
Please remember we are trying to make a major positive impact on the access problem. Please mail this on to your local media and anybody you think may be interested, they do not need to be canoeists to help with our problem and support us. Above all have a great weekend!
For more information please contact: DeeDays@jjraftcanoe.com
Jim Jayes
JJ CANOEING & RAFTING LTD
Mile End Mill, Berwyn Road, Llangollen, Denbighshire LL20 8AD United Kingdom
Tel/Fax: 01978 860763 E-mail enquiries@jjraftcanoe.com
Website http://www.jjraftcanoe.com
Fair Access to Rivers.
12th November, 2004
Press Release: DEE DAYS 20/21st November 2004
Access to the countryside is now a reality, but why does it not include rivers?
Despite the problems of children and adults spending too much time on TV and Computer Games and the growing obesity problem, one fantastic sport is being denied to them due to an antiquated situation in this country. Most of our rivers, a prime leisure venue, are closed to all forms of boating and canoeing, mainly due to the fishing lobby. In fact 98% of the rivers in England and Wales have no public access for canoeists whatsoever.
Canoeing is a sport which is both an excellent form of exercise and is extremely ecologically friendly, producing absolutely no harmful emissions. It encourages the youth of today to get outside and into the countryside like no other sport can.
Over 2,000,000 people try canoeing each year but most fail to carry on due to the lack of venues to paddle. We should be encouraging these people, not putting obstacles in their way. It is time for the government to take action if it is serious about promoting healthy living and making the countryside available for all.
We took a silver medal in the men’s kayak and a bronze in the ladies‘, at this years Olympic Games, but our athletes have to train abroad most of the time due to the lack of access in this country. This frustration is not only there for the competitive canoeist but also for the recreational paddler.
Jim Jayes of JJ Canoeing and Rafting, Llangollen, is organising a protest weekend to raise public awareness of the problems facing the sport. They have invited every canoeist and their supporters to attend and are expecting between two and five thousand canoeists to be there. As well as canoeing events throughout the weekend on their stretch of the RIVER DEE they will also have a mass march starting at the International Pavilion Llangollen, 11am on Sunday 21st November.
The aim is to make the public aware of the current access situation and the damage it is doing to the tourist economy and the sport of canoeing. We hope that this will in turn encourage the government to look again at the whole issue, and improve the situation to bring us into line with Scotland and the rest of Europe where most rivers are open to the public, in the way that the Countryside Bill has opened up the countryside to Ramblers.
Contact.Jim Jayes.
Tel/Fax: 01978 860763 E-mail enquiries@jjraftcanoe.com
Website http://www.jjraftcanoe.com
We will be organising a weekend event in Llangollen to highlight the lack of river access.
The aim is to make the public aware of the current access situation and the damage that it is doing to both the economy of the town and canoe sport as a whole. It is hoped that this issue is of such importance to canoeists that we get the largest number of participants in one place ever! We are looking to get full media coverage of the event and to make a major positive impact on the public perception of the problem.
The provisional timetable is:
Saturday, Free Fun Rodeo Event, plus a cardboard boat stopper ride at Mile End Mill.
(Entries in by 12pm on the day.)
(We are also looking for somebody to organise a floodlit slalom on Sat evening 20th November. Let us know if you can help? Enter by 2pm on the day.)
Saturday, Evening Party, Mile End Mill.
Sunday 11am-1pm Official Protest March in Llangollen Town
Starts outside the Eisteddfod (International Pavilion) 11am.
Bring your banners, have your say!
Access to the event/party and the Mile End Mill site is free all weekend.
Please be aware that there will be a large police and parking warden presence in town for this weekend. There is parking at Mile End Mill for the events there. Extra parking has also been organised at the Smurfit factory 200 metres from the Mill and at the Eisteddfod International Pavilion. Please park considerately, as we are not the only users on this weekend. Please do not enter the factory yard at Smurfits.
Please remember we are trying to make a major positive impact on the access problem. Please mail this on to your local media and anybody you think may be interested, they do not need to be canoeists to help with our problem and support us. Above all have a great weekend!
For more information please contact: DeeDays@jjraftcanoe.com
Jim Jayes
JJ CANOEING & RAFTING LTD
Mile End Mill, Berwyn Road, Llangollen, Denbighshire LL20 8AD United Kingdom
Tel/Fax: 01978 860763 E-mail enquiries@jjraftcanoe.com
Website http://www.jjraftcanoe.com
Steve
18 November 2004, 11:23 PM
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My old car at the Northern Big One by the way 
Strangely I was the only on there with a boat on the roof (went to paddle on the Washburn afterwards), but I *know* I'm not the only boater on here...
Strangely I was the only on there with a boat on the roof (went to paddle on the Washburn afterwards), but I *know* I'm not the only boater on here...
19 November 2004, 12:04 PM
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Its a matter of canoing and fishing not mixing and the fishing is well supporterd on the Dee anyway. I thought that there was a canoeing championship at Llangollen every year anyway. We have a good arrangement with canoeists on the River Dart in that the canoeists are allowed full access when the fishing season finishes at the end of the summer. That is when the river levels rise and there is faster white water which is just what the canoeists want. The Dee may well be different in that it is a very good Grayling river and those fish are best fished for in the winter season.
With all due respect, it has been noted that canoeists tend to take over on the river and are likely to go barreling past someone who might be standing in the river trying to fish etc. I have seen them tangling with lines etc and not caring what damage they cause. They seem sometimes to have an inflated idea of their own importance. That is the major reason that the sports just dont mix
Les
Les
With all due respect, it has been noted that canoeists tend to take over on the river and are likely to go barreling past someone who might be standing in the river trying to fish etc. I have seen them tangling with lines etc and not caring what damage they cause. They seem sometimes to have an inflated idea of their own importance. That is the major reason that the sports just dont mix
Les
Les
19 November 2004, 12:38 PM
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Yes there was an agreement on access on the Dee, but the landowners have not offered to continue that so there were no competitions or any other permitted paddling except at Mile End Mill, which is privately owned by JJ's canoeing/rafting. Instead there have been uncontrolled "bandit" runs by paddlers who are probably showing a little less respect for other river users than would normally be the case.
In my experience fishing and canoeing can mix just fine. I do a lot of paddling on navigations and as you'd expect most fishermen are happy to haul lines in while I pass but some are not - and this is on canals, which were built explicitly for waterborne traffic It goes the other way too, most paddlers are polite and give way, while some are just tossers unfortunately.
At the end of the day, I don't think there is enough canoeing traffic to justify legal exclusion or even be a good basis for claiming we're an annoyance. Even on a very busy river like the Dee could be, you won't be interrupted more than a few times an hour, and usually it'll be much less.
Steve
In my experience fishing and canoeing can mix just fine. I do a lot of paddling on navigations and as you'd expect most fishermen are happy to haul lines in while I pass but some are not - and this is on canals, which were built explicitly for waterborne traffic
It goes the other way too, most paddlers are polite and give way, while some are just tossers unfortunately.At the end of the day, I don't think there is enough canoeing traffic to justify legal exclusion or even be a good basis for claiming we're an annoyance. Even on a very busy river like the Dee could be, you won't be interrupted more than a few times an hour, and usually it'll be much less.
Steve
Last edited by millband; 19 November 2004 at 12:41 PM.
19 November 2004, 02:24 PM
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eh? - I have a canoe and the River Severn is about 50 paces from from my front door - I just walk down there and bang it in - never had a problem.....
There are a couple of companies who do canoe hire group tours too - they pass down every weekend in't summer ..... does this not apply to the Severn?
There are a couple of companies who do canoe hire group tours too - they pass down every weekend in't summer ..... does this not apply to the Severn?
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19 November 2004, 04:27 PM
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I understand your point Steve and yes of course most canoeists would behave in a reasonable manner I am sure. But some will make a nuisbace of themselves too and they will be the ones who spoil your chances.
I used to fish in the Dee for Grayling and they are very nervous fish, very easily frightened away unfortunately. Takes quite a bit of stealth to find them. That is probably one of the main reasons for your problems. The fishing rights are owned by clubs and organisations and you will find it difficult to convince them. If there was a close season as for trout and salmon it would be a lot easier.
Les
I used to fish in the Dee for Grayling and they are very nervous fish, very easily frightened away unfortunately. Takes quite a bit of stealth to find them. That is probably one of the main reasons for your problems. The fishing rights are owned by clubs and organisations and you will find it difficult to convince them. If there was a close season as for trout and salmon it would be a lot easier.
Les
19 November 2004, 06:10 PM
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Cheers for the replies guys
Dr Hu - that's because the Severn is classed as a "navigation" through a lot of its length, and therefore boats of all sorts have a right to be on the river. The problem comes further upstream and in smaller rivers where no legal right of way exists.
Leslie - I've actually seen fish swimming under my boat quite a few times, they don't seem bothered. But they might be the braver breeds!
For information the protest is about river access in general, not just on the Dee. Essentially we would like the freedom to roam in a similar way to that recently granted to walkers, with similar sensible restrictions. Without wishing to restrict anyone elses rights, we feel we should be able to coexist legally with other recreational users, not be at their beck and call.
Fishing rights should be restricted to the land used to access the water, not applied to the water itself. Landowners would still be free to control and charge for access to their land if they want. Canoeing and fishing should be able to work together like stalking and hiking in Scotland. In fact, there is free access to rivers in Scotland and I don't believe that fishermen have suffered much detriment to their sport up there.
Cheers,
Steve
Dr Hu - that's because the Severn is classed as a "navigation" through a lot of its length, and therefore boats of all sorts have a right to be on the river. The problem comes further upstream and in smaller rivers where no legal right of way exists.
Leslie - I've actually seen fish swimming under my boat quite a few times, they don't seem bothered. But they might be the braver breeds!
For information the protest is about river access in general, not just on the Dee. Essentially we would like the freedom to roam in a similar way to that recently granted to walkers, with similar sensible restrictions. Without wishing to restrict anyone elses rights, we feel we should be able to coexist legally with other recreational users, not be at their beck and call.
Fishing rights should be restricted to the land used to access the water, not applied to the water itself. Landowners would still be free to control and charge for access to their land if they want. Canoeing and fishing should be able to work together like stalking and hiking in Scotland. In fact, there is free access to rivers in Scotland and I don't believe that fishermen have suffered much detriment to their sport up there.
Cheers,
Steve
20 November 2004, 10:16 AM
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Doubt if the fox hunting issue will affect it.
Yes I have seen fish like trout and pike under the boat when I have been reservoir fishing Steve, but Grayling are different. Yes the Dart is governed by general access too but the arrangements here seem to work out well enough for all interests.
Les
Yes I have seen fish like trout and pike under the boat when I have been reservoir fishing Steve, but Grayling are different. Yes the Dart is governed by general access too but the arrangements here seem to work out well enough for all interests.
Les
25 November 2004, 11:26 AM
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Just noticed this on the Conservative site:
Seek ways of allowing greater canoe access to rivers while safeguarding fishing interests
The Conservative Party believes in maximising the diverse use of our rivers. It is important
that the two most popular river sports - fishing and canoeing - co-exist. Some scope for
agreement has recently emerged which the Conservative Government will aim to
encourage.
The Conservative Party believes in maximising the diverse use of our rivers. It is important
that the two most popular river sports - fishing and canoeing - co-exist. Some scope for
agreement has recently emerged which the Conservative Government will aim to
encourage.
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