SirFozzalot

Article from: Auto Express





Speed camera detectors could be made illegal in the UK. Auto Express has learned that the Government is looking at ways of banning laser detectors as they can give away the position of mobile speed traps.

A spokesman for the Department for Transport explained: "The police have the right to carry out covert surveillance. Devices that detect the signal given off by a mobile speed camera can give this away, and this could be seen to affect the police's ability to do their job properly." But he added: "We have no problem with those systems which only use GPS satellite technology." Such gadgets, known as locators, are deemed acceptable as they can only tell drivers where fixed cameras are - and this information already exists in the public domain. In addition, Gatsos are designed to slow motorists at accident hotspots, and GPS systems help warn drivers that they're nearing a high-risk location. Many European countries - including France - have already banned all detectors, but a similar move by the UK authorities could give weight to the argument that Gatsos are no more than a way of raising revenue.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Surely the idea of a speed detector is to warn you of a camera/laser therefore slowing you down. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the idea of safety cameras/lasers to slow traffic down?

Surely not?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

If they are only there for safety reasons why do they need to carry out covert surveillance????? Especially as ALL gatsos need to be visible how come the police are allowed to skulk around in the bushes zapping you??? hardly fair sport is it?

Nevetas

GPS ones don't even detect anything, they just provide information.

SirFozzalot

They don't mind the GPS systems, its the Laser detectors they don't like.

Nevetas

Oh OK

FrenchBoy

Laser detectors are useless anyway, by the time you've detected a laser they already have a reading of your speed. SO i cant see why banning them would help the police.

Devices like the LRC 100 are laser diffusers, they prevent the Laser signal returning to the gun, therefore a reading/your speed cannot be determined.
These devices are legal to own as remote garage door openers operate on the same principle - and you cant criminalise people because they cant be arsed to open their garage doors!!

scoobynutta555

Aren't they as harmless as train spotters?

STE.W.

I spotted a speed camera on the A68 just after Carter Barr.

Lets see ya catch me, You'll never take me alive

Maybe if you spot em, take photos and keep em stashed away, they would have to raid your house and search hard drives and such to have you for it

It must be similar to egg thieving.

Ste.

boomer

Surely the police can only carry out "surveillance" (never mind, "covert surveillance") if they have reasonable grounds to suspect that a crime is being committed in the first place! They can't just watch everybody in case they might be breaking the law.

Indeed, with mobile speed traps, the police are expressly forbidden (although i don't know how you would prove this) to simply target a stretch of road continuously waiting for someone to speed. They should only target cars that they think might be breaking the law (i.e. a conscious decision must be made to check their speed).

If they can now hide and presume that everybody is breaking the (speeding) law - assume guilt until laser detector shows otherwise, then what next? Do they trawl through everyones rubbish bins in case they find drug paraphernalia, or randomly check everyones bank statements in case they are money laundering, or demand DNA samples on the off-chance that you have committed a crime?

Sadly, now that David Blind-Git feels that he can hire-and-fire police chiefs for his own political agenda - the prospect of a police state (e.g. black-box trackers in every car) is getting closer and closer

mb

Xbox

Things like this are the tip of the iceberg.
It's a sad fact that over 65% of people would like to move away from this country.... something the Mrs & I are actively in the throws of doing.
I'm not here to diss this country, far from it, it's very sad to see the way our freedom and almost the ability to move freely within our own paid for roads have nearly all but diminished.
From an external perspective, it's not hard to notice that it looks like a convoluted prison.

Spoon

It's now known as Cameraphilia.

hedgehog

It is interesting that they want to ban something that isn't really very effective. Laser detectors only really warn you when you've been caught. My guess is that there is some other motive behind this, or some other use they want to put the lasers to that they don't want you detecting.

Or perhaps it is to try and kill off the jammers? I mean, they jammers to detect the signal before they turn on and jam it. I am willing to bet that the government have spotted a loophole in the law, or more likely the EU law, which would force them to make jammers legal. So, instead, they are going to make the detectors illegal and thereby make it tricky to build an undetectable jammer (perverting the course of justice etc.) which doesn't show up on the laser guns.

Cunning, but we'll beat them at that game as well.

Hoppy

So GPS detectors are legal because the location of fixed cameras is "in the public domain"?

Okay, but the roads and days on which mobile units are going to be deployed is also in the public domain - it's on your local plod's website. Check it out.

So it doesn't say exactly where, or exactly when, but it's still in the public domain. Plod should choose its words more carefully - words like naughty fibbers spring to mind, athough they were not the first words I thought of.

Richard.

PS If these laser detectors only tell you when you've been done, why are people buying them and why are the police trying to ban them? I suspect you stand a good chance of picking up some laser scatter before you're actually in the cross-hairs yourself and have a good chance to check your speed. Can anyone confirm?

BuRR

I'd like to see the intrusive surveillance application for the camera operation.... more to the point, I pity the poor bugger having to submit one! you'd technically need a separate RIPA application for each and every car to pass if the camera was covert........ no chance in a million years.

ScoobyRuss

And the police say to the public they don’t work. Looks like they have changed there mind or they not collecting enough cash. Things like this make me so angry

boomer

hedgehog

I reckon you have a valid point there!

The ANPR cameras permanently installed on many roads (motorways, primary A-roads etc.) were, i believe, originally intended to be used in exceptional circumstances - e.g. watch out for "A123 DEF" 'cos they just robbed a bank!!

One of the "side effects" of an active ANPR camera is the fact that it triggers a laser detector - noticeable on the A38 outgoing from Brum just before Spaghetti, the M6 just south of Stafford, the M40 approaching the Warwick turnoff southbound, the M42 around the M6 intersection etc.

Isn't it funny how ALL these ANPR cameras seem to be active these days

Of course, if they banned detectors - you would never know when you were being tracked!

mb

hedgehog

I didn't know that about the ANPR cameras. Why would they have lasers in them? As far as I was aware they just read numberplates. You don't use a laser to do this and that I can think of there is no reason to measure speed or distance to read the numberplate.

I know that here in Northern Ireland there has been a "covert" ANPR type operation that has been in place for a very many years to track terrorists, and I suppose others as well. Of late it has come into the open with cameras positioned in clear view outside police stations and the like but in the past it was fairly common for people to find cameras hidden in trees and such places.

I can't work this one out at all other than to say that the reason for the ban will not be to stop you detecting laser speed traps as we already know that by the time you've detected it you've been done. There is something very underhand and dodgy about this one.

boomer

hedgehog,

i don't think that ANPR have lasers, but they do have (pairs of) awfully big what looks like IR floodlights - which probably trigger my Bel 990i detector. Every time - so not a fluke!

mb (at the ABD AGM later today)