DazV

12 monmths ago I had a clean licence...

Now after 3 separate speeding offences in the last 10 months, all around the 36-38mph mark in a 30 zone from mobile cameras, I find myself with 6 points and another 3 *possibly* on the way.

This time I asked for photo evidence which arrived this morning - looking at the pics (2no.) there's NO WAY you could Identify me or my girlfriend ,or anyone for that matter, as the driver. For a start, the pillar is in the way obsuring the driver. In addition, I have tinted glass and this too obscures the person.

My question is - has anyone had experience of this scenario and is there a chance I could get off on this technicality - if so what course of action should I take?

Freak

Both admit to being the driver.

Two people cant be convicted for the same crime...........

*ps im not a solicitor

ajm

This thread may be partially relevant:

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=340242

In so far as you may not be able to identify the driver (albeit for a slightly different reason). Do you have a plausible explanation for not being sure who was driving (i.e. both use the car daily, offence was x months ago etc.?)

Neil Smalley

look here http://pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewtopic.php?t=841

DazV

thanks all

After reading those links I may have a good case as:

1) Photographic evidence is inconclusive
2) Both me and my girlfriend work and live within 5 mins of where the photo was taken
3) We both use the car regularly

DazV

assuming I DIDN'T win the case - what would my costs be approx ?

hedgehog

The purpose of the photographic evidence is to identify the vehicle and not the driver. The keeper of the vehicle will then be sent an NIP asking that they identify the driver. It is this evidence that establishes the identity of the person driving the car, though it would now seem that the photographic evidence may at least be presented in court to attempt to identify the driver..

It would be unwise to lie on the NIP or in court, this is perjury and while police officers may do it you should not lower yourself to their level.

The paragraph 4 defence (you didn't know who was driving) is proving more and more difficult to get past the courts as they have been sent a memo basically telling them to convict anyone who claims it. You would certainly need to get legal representation to go this route and stand even the slightest chance of a win. Remember this is about getting your cash out of your wallet and if the "i'm not sure who was driving" defence was seen by the public to work then everyone would be doing it. Basically they are stopping this before the flood gates open.

The courts are part of the camera partnerships and so actually benefit financially every time a camera flashes. Clearly a case of fair and unbiased justice.

The one ray of hope is that there is some very well qualified thought that the NIP has been determined by the European Court to be illegal. This still hasn't been tested in open court in the UK but attempts are being made to test it as soon as possible. In this case you should at least hold on to the NIP and only respond to meet the 28 day deadline.

If you check the pepipoo site there is a very nice letter on there to send to your local Chief Constable pointing out that the NIP is illegal under EU law and asking what he would like you to do. This might be a worthwhile route and you could find the charges magically being dropped, as the CC probably doesn't know where he stands either. To be honest I'd say the paragraph 4 defence is going to be a long hard and expensive fight with only a slim chance of a win at the end of it.

imlach

A simpler solution :

1) Persuade your girlfriend to take the points assuming she has less points than you.

2) Refrain from speeding in future given your current precarious licence position.

hedgehog

Interesting approach but I believe that within the last week or so a chap was sent to jail for doing exactly the same thing. If they were later to establish that the driver was certainly a man, or the passenger certainly a woman then there is the risk of time in jail.

Dodgy I'd say.

imlach

OK.

Scrub my option (1) above.....

scoobyvirgin

Try telling them that the car was on test drive as you were selling it. You don't know who the driver was as you didn't ask for I.D. If they ask where it was advertised, just say you had adverts in your windows.

Ok it might not work for you but it has before. I know

Dazza01

Beware, before going down route number 3, i was lucky cos it took 38 days before i received the NIP, and the judges agreed that it would be difficult remembering due to the time factor who was driving the car, but if its received in the normal time of 14 days or less be careful how you answer it they may not agree with you.

But hope all goes well m8