gsm1

My father pulled out of a side road turning right onto the main road. He was given way by a bus (to his right). He has then proceeded to move out having checked traffic from the left and coming out slowly as you can't see if anyone is coming along the outside of the bus. As he moves out a moped delivery guy is coming down the wrong lane (overtaking all the traffic) and hits his offiside front wing and door The moped driver started gesturing an apology and putting his hand up. My father told him to wait while he parked the car to the side and moped man speeds off instead.

Having spoken to the insurance company the telephone operator has suggested that my father was at fault and the moped driver was not. Now, I understand what she is saying, but surely the moped driver has some liability here?

OllyK

If he has not stopped to exchange details then report him for failing to stop at the scene of an accident.

Also hard to say if the moped was in the right - chances are he may not have been, depends on the road markings and signs in that area.

gsm1

Already reported him. My father has a strong suspicion he delivers for the local kebab/pizza shop. Will wait and see.

OllyK

Well in that case I'd quote the crime number to the Insurance company explaining that he failed to stop and has not tried to get in contact.

Also get out and sketch map the area it occured, making notes on road marking and signs. Take photos if you can as well. This will all help if you need to take the moped rider to court. Check for no-overtaking signs, doubles white lines, zig zags etc.

Also you need to remember that when overtaking, the onus is upon you to ensure that it is safe to do so. If it had been a little old lady crossing the street that other vehicles had stopped for and this guy sped past - what do you think would be the outcome then??

Also if he hit the wing and door, your father must have had the nose of the car well beyond the bus, so although he couldn't see, the moped rider certainly should have done.

Once you can track the guy down, and get the insurance detaisl from him, your insurance may be a little more receptive, especially if the police choose to charge him with failing to stop and possibly driving without due care. I suspect at the moment your insurance company just can't be bothered to do the leg work.

gsm1

Cheers for the advice, OllyK.

OllyK

Your welcome - I am not a lawyer or anything, but hope that it may give you a few pointers and arguments to fire back at the insurance!

elgordano

the moped driver shouldn't have been overtaking at a junction so is he not at fault ??

Reffro

There is some fault in the actions of the moped rider, but the ultimate liability lies with your father unfortunately. As he was crossing a carriageway it is his responsibilty to check for other vehicles, being flashed/gestured at does not give you right of way, you still have to check the carriageway is clear, as other vehicles may not have seen the bus driver signal your father, which is exactly what has happened unfortunately.

The only thing the moped rider will be guilty will be failing to report an accident/exchanging details, he may be guilty of careless driving, but it does not remove the liability of your father I'm afraid.

gsm1

Whenever someone gives you way you don't automatically pull out assuming they have checked the way is clear for you and I know my father certainly doesn't drive like that. When there is a bus or any other large vehicle it is impossible to see if there is a vehicle overtaking in the opposite lane so you can only pull out with extra care. I've checked the road markings on the road and the lines between the opposite lanes of traffic on the high road are separated by diagonal hatching markings right up to that junction - so it appears Mr Moped is fully liable, he shouldn't have been on the other side of the road overtaking.

fast bloke

This is exactly what happened to me (I was on the bike, but the bus was in the same place and the car came from the same place - I ended up in casualty so no doing a runner )


Anyway - it ended up in court. The judge was a doddery fool and blamed it 50% on me and 50% on the bus driver

The bus company decided to appeal and it was subsequently found to be 100% the fault of the car driver. "Make sure the road is clear in both directions before moving off" If your father couldn't see in both directions then he should have sat his ground.

Jiggerypokery

Are the diagonal hatching markings enclosed by solid white lines?
If not, see:

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/10.shtml

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road.
These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
<...>
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
<...>
If it is a dashed line, then you can enter the striped area, if necessary, for overtaking.

orbv

An old school mate was hit turning left onto a main road. The other car was doing 60+mph (in a 30), on the wrong side of the road and passing the wrong side of a traffic island / keep left sign. To get on the wrong side he had to cross chevrons and solid line.

It was still counted as my mates fault as he was turning onto the main road and whatever the other driver was doing is not relevant.

T.C

A common type of accident I deal with on a daily basis from a civil law point of view.

Up until recently, the liability would have been 80% against the Moped rider and 20% against the car, but there have been recent cases where the motorcyclist has been blameless and the car driver held 100% liable.

It is difficult to apportion liability without knowing the full facts and seeing the evidence available, however given the facts as written both sides would have to accept a degree of contributory negligence, the determining factor would be what was the primary cause.

Filtering is not an offence per se, but there are guidelines that have to be obeyed, but at the same time, the onus of responsibilty also lies with the driver as he has a statutory duty of care to ensure it is safe before they pull into major traffic or emerge from side turns, and they should not take the signals or actions of other road users on face value or act on those signals.

The Moped rider should also have considered the fact that his view of the junction would have been obscured by the bus and that there may have been the possibility of vehicles emerging, so there is a degree of fault with both road users.

The fact that the Moped rider failed to stop means that an additional serious offence has been committed, but Road traffic Law is somewhat different to civil law which is what covers accident claims.

Difficult one to call as i say without knowing all the facts and seeing the evidence.

gsm1

The diagonal lines are bordered by broken white lines, so surely the moped driver should have proceded with caution and how do you define 'unless it is necessary'? Necessary in his case meant getting to the next set of traffic lights 5 seconds faster than the bus, nothing else.