andrewdelvard

As my business slowly but surely starts to grow I'm starting to pick up some commercial work as oppossed to peoples homes. It's a little more lucrative and if I had the choice thats all I'd do. Seems a lot more straight forward and bla bla bla.
Made a few contacts. Not many but I've had enough conversations to know that no one is going to offer you work just because they like you. They'd like a drink or two. Fine by me as long as it's worthwhile and helps me along the way. Question is how's it usually work all this 'drink' buying? Any tales to tell? Rules to follow? Don't want any common sence advice, I've enough of that but just would like one or two tales just to get a little idea of what to offer, how to bargain.
Go on, there might be a drink in it for you

[Edited by andrewdelvard - 1/6/2004 9:21:17 PM]

mj

It depends what line of business you're in I suppose...

Depending on your method of billing/accounts etc,would depend on how you can buy your drinks.... the old paper money is quite hard to generate or dispose of, ........so I heard anyway.

Is the product/service your selling something that joe public buy anyway.....if so why not a freebie in lieu of drink.

..Or have I misinterpreted your post, and you want to know how to extract pound notes from the company?


What do you do for a living then?

Brendan Hughes

[Hey Andrew - did you get your stamps?]

David Lock

Cash never offends........ D

248SPG

I heard a story not so long ago that what these people did was as follows:

An individual made sure that the Order was put through a specific company. He then personally invoiced the supplying company personally for consulation fees or something (The invoice was done in MS Word) and then the company paid his invoice.

Supposedly the company is then in the clear as all they have done is paid an invoice and it is then up to the individual to claim the money as income to the taxman.

Sure there is a problem with this somewhere or may be a loophole and I wouldnt like to be the bloke if the Taxman catches him up.

Hope that helps and answers the question mate

S

Oh forgot to mention I drink Fosters


[Edited by 248SPG - 1/7/2004 12:36:20 AM]

Luke

Its a dangerous game.. "Drinks".
Work for the best people and only hire the best people... Its your reputation.

greedy people tend to be thieves as well

andrewdelvard

Thanks for the reply. I make (some) sell and fit awnings, every blind under the sun and certain shade canopies. It's quite lucrative but you earn your money.
You've understood me correctly. Although it would be great to agree a price with a customer and then get them to bribe me to actually do it!!!

jasey

If the 'Drink' doesn't work you could always try the "Don't you look nice with both kneecaps working properly" approach.

This is an "Advanced" technique though and not for the faint hearted

mj

If thats the case, why not just invoice the customer for "materials supply only ".. and make the invoice value just the cost of the parts.

..You still actually make the canopy or whatever, the labour costs can be paid cash though - who's to know any different?...assuming you do not document any of your time to that job of course.

You now have some cash in your hand to do as you wish, buy em' drinks, portable tellies whatever ...

..this is just what some bloke in the pub said anyway

[Edited by mj - 1/7/2004 9:11:28 AM]

ProperCharlie

i don't have any personal experience of this , but the world of "drinks" is quite diverse. Usually, the "drink" is in proportion to the value of the work, and the *increased* value as a result of the wink & nod. As to ways of exchanging the "drink"; this can be anything from the proverbial brown envelope, a quick handshake, or more complicated stuff like the billing methods that have been mentioned. The only thing I would say is that you need to know who you are dealing with. It can be wise to decline the initial offer of a "drink", and wait to see how the relationship develops. If people think you "bend" too easily, you may get pressured to do things that are too dodgy.

All IMO, and from what I've heard.

Luke

And remember ..If you get "grassed" or found out .And the Taxman gets you.. They will suck you dry better than a Crack cocaine hooker on Old Street.

ProperCharlie

another good, and more legitimate route, is to do a bit of "corporate entertainment". find out what the potential client likes, might be golf, football, lap dancing, whatever, and then ask if they would like to join you and a colleague for a day's golf or a night on the town etc. all legitimate and above board, and tax deductable (up to a point).

mj

Aside from all this sculduggery, if your product is good, and the prices are right you will get the order.

Has it it been hinted to you by your customers that a bit of palm tickling/greasing may be required? , if not, do not automatically assume that it will be required.

Agree with the corporate hospitality suggetion as above, it works wonders.

Luke

If a client wad to mention "Paying by cach" I would walk away... That means they dont want any paperwork and if they stitch you up at the end.. Its going to be hard going to court.

ProperCharlie

i'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. it may apply if you are selling tins of baked beans, but in the commercial/industrial sector it simply isn't the case. more contracts are won and lost on who you know or how much you paid than on cost and quality.

luke - don't forget to declare those bottles of Lafitte, or was it Latour?

[Edited by ProperCharlie - 1/7/2004 10:41:48 AM]

Luke

PC...

I believe in one thing.... "Peace", My accounts are looked after by God himself!!!

Luke

mj

proper charlie,

maybe in your line of work and your part of the world what you say may be true, I am surprised to hear that more work is won or lost due to how much cash is given or who you know / backscratching etc.

In my line of work and the companies we work for and employ - what I originally said is true - it just doesent happen, well very very occaisionaly, and then it may be a thank you to someone as we did ok out of the deal, I wouldn't say we rely on it to win work.

..and no, we don't sell beans

ProperCharlie

mj - well maybe "more" is a bit of an exaggeration, but it does happen in a significant proportion of high value contracts. it can take various forms - often you just know someone is getting a bung but can't prove it. other times the tendering process is deliberately obscured. other times they flatly refuse to tell you why you were not short-listed, despite being legally obliged to do so. the tyhing is, you could kick up a stink and threaten to go to the relevant ombudsman or commision, but all you would do is make it even less likely that you would be selected in future, as you would be labelled a "troublemaker".

personally, i think my beans are the best in the world and can't understand why no-one wants them...

[Edited by ProperCharlie - 1/7/2004 11:09:19 AM]

andrewdelvard

It just seems that the more I get involved in the commercial side of things in this part of the world (Devon) the more this is mentioned as a consideration and more importantly, the norm. And it's so true to say that price is not always the main consideration, it's who you know and the contacts you make. BTW whats all this talk of the taxman? If I want to give a carton of **** or something else to someone as a thanks whats it got to do with them?

Luke

later on in life I would love to work for the Inland revenue... Some of you guys in the trade leave the front door open and are too thick to notice.I would work for frre.. Just charge a commision and I would be rich.

ProperCharlie

i hope you aren't referring to me, Luke

if you are - i know where you live...



edited to add - not that i've got anything to hide, in any case. i've already been well and truly shafted by the taxman.



[Edited by ProperCharlie - 1/7/2004 12:29:36 PM]

Diablo

Andrew,

If you are making such "gifts" from taxed income, or at least declaring them as such, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Its the recipient who had to account or not for it.

Corporate hospitality works well, but I believe you are looking at providing insentives to the individuals who say yes or no to contracting with a particular supplier - so they may be looking for more "physical" gifts.

As far as cash goes, as long as you properly account for it and pay tax on it, its the recipient's look out.

Its a funny world, giving someone £200 cash would not be tax deductable, but buying them 20 lapdances at a tenner a time would be (if you could get a receipt for it..LOL...)

If you are vat registered, the vat on "entertaining" is not recoverable.

D

ProperCharlie

the good thing about corporate hospitality is that there are no "strings" either way, but obviously if you get business, you keep the flow of hospitality going. to take people to a fully corporate premiership game costs about £150/head plus drinks etc. lots of people wouldn't spend £400 - £500 on a day out for their wife, mistress, uncle or whatever, but they enjoy it. naturally, they will tend to look on you more favourably if they know that more of this sort of thing is in the pipeline. plus their "integrity" is not compromised. OTOH, some people want hard cash and laugh at anything else. these are best avoided IMO.

andrewdelvard

Thanks Diablo, I suppose corporate hospitality is another lable for it. Bottles of scotch, **** etc etc are what I had in mind. With cash, well it all gets a little messy I suspect.