PiNkEyE69

they will get you....

MarkO

This dumb RIAA campaign is only enforceable in the US - it has no legal basis outside America.

Oh, and this might help redress the balance.

Gordo

Purely speculating,

Are there definitley no subpoenas being issued in the UK yet?

How does the website allowing you to check whether you've been sent anything help redress the balance?

Is it possible to mask your IP address to stop the RIAA spiders hitting you?

Devil's Refugee

LOL
Come and have a go if you think you're spiders are hard enuff !

PiNkEyE69

[Slaps head]

SiDHEaD

Sales are down because they keep releasing a lot of drivvel!

Andy

PiNkEyE69

Oh, only $12bn!!! That's it, rub it in why don't you.

flat4

never feel any guilt myself when you see these popstars/moviestars living the life of luxury, can't be losing that much money can they and Kazaa's a load of rubbish anyway


kev

JackClark

I'm always suprised by the disconnect between real and online crime. If you're stealing you should expect a criminal record.

Markus

It's not really the artists that lose out now is it, it's the greedy corporations who do. OK, if let's say the Acid Jazz label was being raped, yeah, I'd feel bad, but something like BMG or MCA, or other of the big companies, well, sod them! Why should a CD be 13.99 pounds here and 13.99 CAD Dollars in Canada? Don't bullsh1t me that it's costs more to manufacture it someplace else, puuurlease, we all know it costs very silly small amounts of cash to mass produce cd's in the numbers big labels do.

I will admit that I do copy the odd cd here and there, however, when it comes to downloads, well, I think I've got 10 tracks I've downloaded, all the rest are MP3's from my CD collection.

MarkO

Jack, guess you could open up a whole 20-page philosophical discussion with that one.

Couple of points from my PoV:

1. I'm a software developer, so piracy can directly affect my income. For example, my WebReaper app is shareware, so reliant on peoples' conscience to pay for it, simply because I knew that there is no sure-fire way of protecting against piracy, and if people want it, they'll crack it. It's a losing battle, and a waste of my time/energy.

2. There are many studies which show that people who download music actually use it as a 'try before they buy' thing, and actually buy more music than people who don't download music. Of course, it depends which side you ask, obviously, but the evidence is there. I don't think there is any solid proof that links MP3 downloads to the music industry's sales decline.

3. This is exactly the same argument as when tape-cassettes came out, and is also the same as when recordable CDs became widely available. Neither of those has killed the music industry (particularly the former - despite me & my mates all taping each others' albums for years when I was younger), so what difference will music downloads make?

4. Ownership is still a driving force with music, films etc. I like owning CDs, DVDs, etc, and would much rather own an original than a copy, even if the quality is the same. So being able to download MP3s will not stop me buying music, it'll just mean I might listen to stuff that I would never have listened to otherwise, and hence I might be encouraged to buy stuff which I wouldn't have ever considered without it.

5. Most importantly, though, the RIAA has completely misunderstood that by using heavy-handed legal techniques and trying to stop the problem. They don't understand the technology, and don't realise that it's not something they can stop (ever). If they had any sense at all, they'd try and work with the people who want to share the music to find a satisfactory solution for all involved - instead of just storming in with their size-12s, throwing their toys out of the pram, and giving subpaenas to anyone they can point the finger at.

MarkO

Markus - good point. I've got a 30Gb MP3 collection, about 26Gb of which is music I've personally ripped from CDs that I've bought myself....

PiNkEyE69

Had it crossed their mind that it might be becuase of all this manufactured pap that people are going off buying music, rather than the whole P2P thing? that combined with a recent graph that shows that the target 'pop' audience of early-mid teens are buying less music these days and more dvd's/games due to the better 'value for money' factor.

DJ140

People still pay £13.99 for a CD?!!!

I always buy CD's, sad or what, but only on-line for £8-9, can't see the point in giving HMV £14 for the same CD.

Now they are a similar price to the US, I don't have a problem paying for music I enjoy, even if the artists get richer, so what. Why do people with a talent make people without one jealous?

NACRO

I've actually bought more records than I might purely because I've been able to preview them on MP3- I've then gone and bought the vinyl.

I also find MP3's useful for playing in my car and often get tracks I already own on vinyl in MP3 format to save me having to manually copy from record to CD. Do the record companies seriously expect people to buy music again just because they want to have it on different format? If so then they deserve to be ripped off.

PiNkEyE69

And then to really p you off they'll either re-release the album 'digital remastered', 'special limited edition' or something like that, or put the song(s) you like on a compilation album, then release a greatest hits album.
I currently have approx 150 CD albums at home, most of them bought second hand - so does that mean I'm hurting the music industry becuase I didn't buy those from a high street retailer? Even more, does that mean that buy ripping these to mp3 so I can listen to them in the car I'm also hurting the industry becuase I didn't "buy it in mp3 format off them", even though 90% of the industry doesn't "sell" music in this format (and probably never will, and there I think is the whole crux of the problem - mp3, a technology the music industry doesn't understand and won't embrace, and yet feels threatened by)
I always find it amazing how you see an album selling for £13.99 one minute, then it's "2 for £20" the next ???

[Edited by PiNkEyE69 - 7/29/2003 1:25:26 PM]

[Edited by PiNkEyE69 - 7/29/2003 1:27:56 PM]

Gordo

The Apple on-line model is interesting - at the moment it means you can buy a single track which is way cheaper than buying an album.

The issue for me is quality - I'll download occasionally online but more to learn about an artist before buying (the much better quality IMO) original CD.

Pricing is an issue - people feel ripped off by the music industry and are fed up with the **** recycling of old or popular ****e - better presentation of new and up and coming acts rather than manufactured pop nonsense would help them for starters. Re-price the retail CDs and set up decent on-line buying sites and people would feel better about them - as has already been said, the technology's out there. The industry should be embracing it and using it to their own benefit rather than attacking it.

Gordo

Mungo

I'm sure a lot of the people "sharing" via P2P wouldn't ever buy the original CD. When we were kids and copied tapes off each other, it was because we couldn't afford to buy new tapes each week. The record company wasn't losing a sale because there wasn't £4.99 to pay for one, but I could afford a 69p blank tape. I'm sure the P2P thing is much the same.

ChrisB

It's also a fact that less albums have been released in the past few years.

The record companies that hide behind RIAA have been found guilty of price fixing in the States as well.

EvilKyote

EEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeer? and here I was just 'Listening' to it all these years when there were so many other things I could do with it! like, er, Listen to it, and when bored with that i could then, er, um, Listen to it again later?!

What a TW@T

Bollocks! For a start they shouldn't be making these damn comercial bands whose sole purpose is to make them more money.

As far as talent is concerned, what cr@p! there are loads on telented unsigned bands out there that they don't bother taking to time to give them a chance!



EK

[Edited by EvilKyote - 7/29/2003 2:23:33 PM]

EvilKyote

Oh,

And when will these tw@ts understand the people do not have a problem with the artists! but with the greedy record companies!

Out of that £14 you pay for a CD, about £1 is manufacturing cost, £1 advertising, £2 to the artist, £10 to the record company!!!!

FFS what do they expect when they rip both US and the artists off?

EK

MarkO

Just to play devil's advocate for a second, I think you have to bear in mind that the record companies do pay a lot of money out in R&D, and promotion, without which a lot of the stars wouldn't get anywhere. But what winds me up is when you get cr@p like [/i]Pop Idol[/i], etc., where the general public pay the bills and do the work in selecting an 'artist' (loosest possible sense of that word) and then have to pay for the album that's the end result.

And then, when 2 weeks later, the band's been slated and got absolutely nowhere (in terms of sales) they wonder whether the fact that people are downloading other tunes is the reason for the slump in record sales. See One True Voice or even Hear'Say for examples.

Gordo

also playing devil's advocate, I'm actually a fan of the manufactured bands as you do get a better quality of young gusset to enjoy

course the music's ****e and the band doesn't last long - but again, this is good, as it keeps the participants 'fresh'

PiNkEyE69

Take OPM for example, they blasted their tune 'Heaven is a halfpipe' all over the radio and tv.
So much so that I went an bought their album, what a load of cack!
The only songs I liked were the 2 they released as singles.
Now if I'd have downloaded the album on a 'trial' (using that term loosely) basis via the internet I wouldn't have bought the album, but then I'd would be "costing the music company money" by not buying the album because it's cr@p.

MarkO

More fool you. Since the track 'Heaven in a Halfpipe' is cack, it's not surprise that the rest of the album is too.

Steve Howat

I like the way they think they'll catch everybody that illegally downloads music and movies. Whenever I've been on Kazaa there's been at least another 4 million logged on at the same time and some 850 million shared files. I'd have thought you'd need to be a habitual downloader to get caught amongst that lot? The average Joe that downloads a couple of tunes a month aint gonna be worth touching.....

ChrisB

Another good article on The Register

"A pair of major music labels have been hit with another round of price-fixing charges courtesy of the FTC - a decision which raises the question as to who exactly is to blame for falling music revenue."

"How many price-fixing scandals will it take before the government begins to question how serious the labels' losses to P2P file trading really are? Do grandparents and children pose more of a threat to the music industry than its own executives?"

"Sales in 2002 were almost twice that of sales in 1993. Few industries have enjoyed such success."

I would think most companies would be happy doubling sales over 10 years and they'd take that as a nice, sustained growth. It seems like RIAA will look at anything but themselves for excuses...