Carl Davey

iTrader: (3)

I've been having trouble of late photographing my white car in bright sunlight using my Sony DSC-P51 camera.

It seems that the camera filters out all the light from my photos, making them appear alot darker than in reality. See the pictures i took today below, these are just examples and by no means the worst.





It is really sunny here today btw, hence my giving the car a rinse and attempting the photos.

I played around with some settings, removed the flash, changed 'ISO' to 400 and changed the 'White Balance' to the sunshine logo and managed to get the picture below.



However, that photo is still nowhere near a 'light' as it was in reality. For example, from where i was standing the wheels stood out very clearly.

It also appears to be quite random, some of the initial batch of photos i took came out fine, almost an exact representation of what my eye could see.

I'm just looking for some advice on how to make the best use of my camera, where should the sun be in relation to me and my subject and ultimately, what is the best way to set my camera up to take pictures in the afore mentioned scenario.

Also, the camera seems to have lost its 'edge' since i bought it. The picture below was taken when it was practically new....



... it seems to be alot clearer than the ones i am currently taking?


Any help much appreciated as ever.

[Edited by Carl Davey - 17/04/2003 16:21:56]

The Zohan

edited as Andy's answer is much more comprehensive and better written than mine

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 17/04/2003 17:45:53]

The Zohan

The problem with the last pic is that it is of a cavalier!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Carl,

You have a very common and easily explained exposure problem.

Your camera, when it's in fully automatic mode, tried to choose an exposure that makes the picture average out to a mid-grey colour. This gives it plenty of leeway either way, so it's able to capture both bright highlights and dark shadow detail without going beyond the range of the sensor.

The problem comes when you try to photograph a subject that's actually supposed to come out very bright - like your white car. The camera doesn't know that the car is meant to be white, so it chooses an exposure that makes it come out mid-grey. If there are any bright, reflective patches that send a lot of light in the camera's direction, that'll only make it worse.

The cure is to look for the manual exposure options on your camera. Try adding positive exposure compensation of +1 or +2 stops and see how that comes out. If you have the ability to lock exposure and re-compose the scene (half-press the shutter then recompose?), try exposing for the road and then point the camera back at the car.

The ISO setting determines the sensitivity of the camera - the higher the ISO, the less light it requires to give a correctly exposed image. The ISO setting is always taken into account when the camera decides the exposure, so it shouldn't have made any difference in this case. Increasing ISO means you can use a faster shutter speed (good for action or night shots), but does increase the overall noise level in the image. For a pic of a white car in the sun, use the lowest ISO setting available for the best image quality.

The unpredictability you've noticed may be because the camera applies different weighting factors to different areas of the image; a bright object in the middle of the frame is often taken as being more significant than one towards the edge of the frame. Look through your pictures, and I'll bet you find that the darkest ones are those that have the largest area covered by the car, or which have the car nearest the centre of the image.

The pic of the Cavalier is better exposed simply because it's a darker object - it's fairly close in brightness to the camera's expected mid-grey, so the exposure is closer to the ideal.

Good luck
Andy.

rik1471

Top answer!

GarethE

iTrader: (1)

Can't fault Andy's answer, but a couple of other pointers...

The human eye/brain is far more adapt at interpretting areas of light and shade that any camera, whether film or digital, so it is always best to photograph your car, especially a white one, in bright but over cast conditions. That way the contrast between areas of light and shade will be reduced and the camera can record more detail.

If you are going to work in bright sunny conditions, then use a flash...it sounds stupid, but the flash will fill in the areas of shadow and ensure that detail can be seen (for example in the wheel arches) - most cameras have a fill in flash mode, usually its a little sun and lightening symbol - which should balance up the flash and sunlight. Nearly all wedding photographers will use flash so that there is detail in the brides dress, and the grooms darker suit.

A lot of it is still practise, experience and luck, but at least with the digital camera you can see the results straight away, and if its still not quite right, there's always Photoshop's dodge and burn tool !!!!!

Good luck

Gareth

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Good point about fill flash - although in order to make any difference in bright sunlight you'll need a very powerful flash, well in excess of the capabilities of most pocket cameras' units. It's primarily used for reducing harsh shadows, particularly in portraiture.

If you want to get all the detail in dark areas like the wheels, your best bet is to move the car so that you can take your shot with the sun roughly behind you - that ensures that the wheels are as well lit as possible. Right now the car is sidelit.

Andy.

GarethE

iTrader: (1)

Fair point Andy, I was forgetting that the output of the flash on those cameras is not really up to much...its not something I normally worry about....

Gareth

The_Lizard

My cheap little Fiju FinePix 2300 manual recommends that you set it to overexpose when you have a bright subject against a dark background - their example was a spotlit performer on a stage with a dark curtain background.

Also, if the sky fills a large part of the frame, let it be overexposed so your subjects will be exposed correctly.

And the comment about choosing a bright hazy day is spot on - stark sunlight creates pale, washed-out areas and very dark shadows. Sometimes, for portraits, you're better off with photographer and subject in full shade on such a day.

S55 HOT

As ever, Andy has summed everything up perfectly.

Also worth mentioning that with a digital camera, taking the picture is only half the job. Get some decent image editing software and you can do wonders with a less than perfect image.

Al

Carl Davey

iTrader: (3)

Andy, Gareth, thanks very much for the pointers and explanation. I'll have a read through the cameras manual asap and do my best to apply what you have said. Unfortunately i won't be reunited with the manual untill i return to work on Monday so it's guesswork till then.

Is it possible that the manual exposure on my camera could be labelled 'Sharpness' guys? This has a range from -2 through to +2 in the menu.

I have knocked the ISO value back to 100 for now, am i right in doing this or would it be best left in Auto?

Al, that Photoshop is a vast improvement, very impressive. My aim for now though is to be able to photograph my car correctly. I'd rather not have to always try and make the best of my bad photos.

Thanks again to everyone for your contributions.


And Paul,

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

Carl,

As above posts, the camera is trying to expose the picture (probably with a centre-weighting) to a mid-grey tone. If you have a Sony camera, there should be a function for exposure control? If so, then you want to over-expose (+ve value). If not, then you should be able to lock the exposure by half-pressing the shutter, then wihtout releasing, reframe the subject and fully press the shutter to take the picture.

One final thing. Using a digital camera is like using transparancy film - exposre has to be exact for a decent image. Normal colour prints usually have some kind of exposre compensation in the printing process, so that slightly under exposed pictures may look ok when printed.

Best things to get a natural exposure on are either a road surface, or more normally, someting green - either grass or hedge/trees.

Another problem with the pictures above, is the fact that the stong sunlight causes high contrasts - ie there is a big difference between light & shade. The Cav is taken on an overcast day, so the contrast is less, and results in a more evenly exposed picutre. Contrast is a big problem even with normal film, and is best overcome by taking pictures with the sun behind you (or slightly to the side to avoid a 'flat' picture). I'm not sure if a digital camera works in the same way, but choosing a lower ISO speed may reduce the contrast in the picture.

[Edited by DaveD - 4/18/2003 1:18:38 AM]

Carl Davey

iTrader: (3)

Dave, thanks for the tips on how to gain a natural exposure in the photos. I followed what you said and today have been pointing the camera at the driveway, half pressing the shutter (untill it beeps) and then bringing the car into shot before fully depressing the shutter. Results below which i'm much happier with.









As you can see the sun was pointing towards the car when the photos were taken, maybe not the best angle but i was only practicing.


Thanks for all your help guys, hopefully flicking through the manual should shed more light on things. This thread is saved.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Carl,

Glad to see that you're getting better results now

A few things to check for future reference:

- the sharpness control has nothing to do with exposure, it has to do with making the picture sharper! What it's doing, is applying a mathematical filter called (oddly) an 'unsharp mask' to the whole image, which has the effect of making edges stand out more. Most digital cameras over-sharpen to make their images look as impressive as possible, but it can also make them look artificial and, well, digital. Sharpening amplifies noise too. You're better off turning sharpness down on the camera, then sharpening later on in Photoshop if the picture looks soft. (Look under Filters>Unsharp Mask and have a play).

- If you lock exposure by half-pressing the shutter and recomposing, check that you're not also locking the focus at the wrong place. Some cameras let you lock focus and exposure separately. If yours doesn't, at least be sure to focus on something at the same distance away as the car.

- To avoid 'blowing out' the white highlights, you might be better off underexposing the image and then applying a correction curve in Photoshop.

Have fun
Andy.

Carl Davey

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the extra tips Andy, i'm gonna sit down with this thread and the manual and do my best to get everything sussed out!

I'm glad i'm getting better results but like you say, they're better but not brilliant. It'd be nice to be able to take full advantage of the facilities at my disposal to get the best pictures possible.

I'm glad i bought a white car now as it's actually forcing me to learn things i'd be completely oblivious to otherwise.


Look out for future attempts!

carl

Carl, IMHO the last set of pictures are overexposed (particularly the first and second ones -- I reckon the third one's pretty good).
If you overexpose you start to lose detail.

BTW with regard to the camera 'losing its edge' have you tried (and I'm not being facetious) cleaning the lens? A microfibre cloth and some cleaning solution (get it from a camera shop) will work wonders. Make sure you brush off the loose dust first, or you'll grind it into the lens.

[Edited by carl - 4/22/2003 9:02:14 PM]