boomer

There is some very interesting stuff on the ABD web-site about the "Large numbers of drivers are being wrongly convicted of speeding, because the signs showing what speed limits are in force often fail to meet the legal minimum requirements, says the Association of British Drivers.
"

The concluding paragraph, from ABD Chairman, Brian Gregory, commented:
Wanna know the regs? See Signing Requirements for Speed Limits

mb

BOB.T

bttt

SWRTWannabe

It was interesting to read the bit about repeater signs not being needed in 30 limits where there are street lights at the prescribed interval.

Surely it could only be seen as a good thing if repeater signs for 30 limits were used, as they act as a reminder of the speed limit. I tend to look at street lights as something to let me see at night, not as something that tells me how fast I can go.

PiNkEyE69

What about dropping the speed limit, shouldn't there be some warning sign saying something like 'new limit' ahead?
I ask because a bunch of roads near me have just had their speed limts dropped 10-20mph with no warning beforehand or after the new signs were put in, and yet the police are there with their new speed camera getting people.

Jen

Problem re: lots of repeaters etc. is the clutter at the roadside - drivers claim they are distracted by to many signs which cause accidents etc. yet also want more signs....

the point about big or new signs on new speed limits etc. was also raised recently - but surely as a driver you should be aware of your surroundings and know what the speed limit is - I think you can "over-engineer" and to a certain extent have to trust people to be able to drive

boomer

SWRTWannabe
According to LBC6 at 5ive-0 even the "prescribed interval" is no longer required Just how are drivers supposed to know the speed limit???

I think that part of the problem is that umpteen years ago, when the original laws were passed about 30mph limits, the only places that had street-lights were true built-up areas, with the associated risk of pedestrians etc. Now, most roads with the slightest habitation seem to be lit, so without a tape measure (or perhaps not) you can't easily tell where the 30 limits are!

Jen
I would love to have a word with the drivers that complain about too many speed limit repeaters Are these the same ones that continues to drive at 30mph in a 40mph zone because they missed the "gateway" sign, as well as the (required) repeaters.

It really gets me cross when you are in a semi-rural area with loads of signs saying "warning, cash-generator cameras", and yet none telling you what the actual speed limit is [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

At the very least, every GATSO should have the speed limit posted on teh approaching side!! At least you could then accept that if you got caught, it was due to your lack of attention!

mb

Jen

Boomer - I do see your point, and to a certain extent I agree.. I had a look driving through Southampton today and there are *masses* of signs, I agree in a rural area it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but it would be manic in a town - imagine a 30mph repeater every 250m through a city centre

...and of course if we were to have repeaters in 30's people would want them in National's ...the nation would be covered in signs!

(and it would cost a fortune and be a nightmare to maintain.)

I'm not saying I don't see your point, 'cos I do But it's impractical really and I maintain - you should be aware enough when driving a car to know the speed limit! It's simple really - Street Lighting = 30mph

boomer

...but that is part of the problem! Both GLFs and "restricted" roads don't have to have speed limit repeaters, but how do you know which is which? The National Speed Limit should be the default unless posted otherwise (which is very nearly the case except for those darn 30s )

Sadly it isn't that simple! What about motorways or dual carriageways with street lighting? Technically, a DC with streetlights (possibly less than 200yards, or is it metres, apart) becomes "restricted" and hence a 30mph limit - quite a change from the normal 70mph one!!

Cheers,

mb

Jen

....I might be completely wrong - but there was a rumour around the office (traffic management) that it has/is going to be being changed to be *any* street lighting unless signed otherwise.

The highway code now states:

Anyway - I best be off, I'll check it out in the morning

Jen

...unless Dual carriageway - I'll check it out in the morning

-=Buzz=-

yes you can. If you CANT see a sign SPECIFICALLY saying its 40, 50, national limit or whatever, and there are streelights then its THIRTY.

FFS look at the speed limit signs as you enter an area.

How easy is THAT? Im sorry, but I don't find that at all difficult in any way.

IGNORANCE IS NO DEFENCE in the eyes of the law.

Just my 2p worth

[Edited by -=Buzz=- - 17/04/2003 22:51:43]

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

Have to admit that I assume any buit-up/lit area is a 30 until a repeater tells otherwise.

You can easily miss the 'gateway' sign to a higher speed limit - for example, if these signs are stuck on a juntion when you are busy looking for other hazards.

However, I'd rather be driving under the limit for a few hundred yards, than risk driving over the limit (and worse, getting caught) just on the assumption that the speed limit is not 30mph.

I think that people are trying to claim they have no common sense these days. To get off a driving conviction because the speed limit sign into a 30 zone was slightly too small/not lit/not painted grey on the reverse is taking the p*ss....... 'Bout time some people had a refresher on their highway code??

Beastie

iTrader: (2)

So you are driving along a single carriageway A road in Scotland which is marked as national speed limit applies. You take this to mean 60, you then encounter a small village with street lights (countless examples around Perthshire)but no sign saying that the limit has changed. Are we to take it that this is still a 60? or because of the street lights that it is a 30?

SWRTWannabe

I'd like to see repeaters in 30 mph limits, just to reassure me I am right in thinking that I am in a 30 limit, when someone behind obviously feels that I'm going too slow and that driving up my exhaust pipe will remedy things

boomer

-=Buzz=-,
Incorrect (see below)!!!!!

DaveD,
...but sadly the Highway Code is a guide, written in such a way as to be understood by even the dregs of society - it is not definitive!

As Jen said above,

The highway code now states:

...but Blacksones POLICE MANUAL (Road Traffic) 2000 says (page 68), regarding Speed Limits on Restricted Road (i.e. 30 limits)...

(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 84(3) of this act, a road is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if--

(a) in England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps places not more than 200 yards apart;

(b) (applies to Scotland only).
<snip>

...so, you really do need to get your tape measure out to check the legal speed limit in streetlamp lit areas!!!!

Surely, for the sake of road safety, the authorities should clearly mark all speed limits???

Beastie,

I am not sure of the exact law in Scotland, but in England and Wales, yes, if on a derestricted A-road, you reach a section with streetlights (lt200ya), the limit is 30 mph, as the road is automatically classified as "restricted". Again, from Blackstone's (same page)...

mb

Beastie

iTrader: (2)

Boomer
Nice one. I live in increased fear now of losing my licence!
Cheers
Beastie

boomer

Beastie,

i think that the major difference (re: 30mph/restricted roads) in Scotland is that street lamps must be 185 metres (rather than 200 yards) apart. Thus you will need to keep two tape measures in your car

mb

MarkB1

as a road enginner in northamptonshire, we are now promoting the use of speed cameras in traffic management situations ie where the national speed limit is reduced from say 70mph on a dual to say 40mph through a lane one closure, so please follow the manditory speed limit,this offer is for your advice and not in anyway intended to prevent traffic enforcement officers from carrying out speed checks. Over 200 people a day (I believe)were speeding through the A45 road works last week and (I believe ) are all subject to prosecution. As a note when you see the men at work sign, not the national speed limit sign you can then increase your speed to that national limit. We are introducing new signs that will incorporate both the men at work end sign and national speed limit as a few over reactive traffic inforcement offices incorrectly book guys for speeding in the road works. Again this is for your advice.