Mungo

Why’s everybody so excited about these 5,000lb "bunker-buster" bombs?
In WWII, the Lancaster bombers dropped 12,000lb "Tallboy" and 22,000lb "Grand Slam" bombs. And that was 60 years ago. Sure they weren't satellite-guided, but still...

SWRTWannabe

Is the explosive inside more powerful? 5000 lb bombs nowadays may be much more powerful than the larger ones used during WWII.

jbryant

The Lancasters could not drop those bombs on a sixpence perhaps, or penetrate 20ft of concrete before detonation?


just a thought
Joolz

ChrisB

Given the men of units like 617 Squadron flew when it was map and compass etc, the accuracy was very impressive (IMO)

A quick bit of Googling reveals by the end of the war 617 were generally accurate to within 125 yards.

http://www.nucleus.com/~ltwright/bombsights.html

The used to use smaller planes like Mosquitos to drop markers to aim at first. Serious respect for those guys

Explosives have moved on a bit since 1945 too.

daiscooby

Tallboys and Grand Slams were filled with RDX, a very advanced explosive for 1945. They were designed to do more or less what a Bunker Buster does now, i.e. penetrate the surfuce and blow a bloody great hole. But with todays explosives you would need an awful lot less to do the same as a Grand Slam 22,000 lb bomb.

And true 617 were down to an average of 125 yeards by 1945. No laser designator splashing it for a smart bomb. Just markers dropped by Mossies, and very sophisticated visual sights from 20 thousand feet. Is it me or have we lost something with thecnology on this one.

Oh and for minimising collateral damage, 617 did a raid on Limoges in Francein 1944 against a strongly defended target at night and hit a factory between a school and a workers housing estate. 12 Lancs bombed from 8000 feet and not one bomb was more than 90 yards of plumb centre, none outside the factory walls.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Showed this thread to my old boy, and he just smiled. He was with 83 squadron, Pathfinders, the guys who REALLY dropped the markers, AND the first load of bombs.
He knew Gibson, and had little respect for him or 617.
He advises you all to read "Lancaster to Berlin", written by Walter Thompson, DFC, an ex pilot from 83 Squadron, still alive, and living now in Canada, as he was Canadian.
Look up "Target Creep", or "Creepback", to see some of what REALLY happened on a big bombing raid.
Alcazar

daiscooby

Also read The Nurember Raid 30/31st March 1944
93 planes lost in one raid. See how far they had AP Creepback, like 50 miles !!
Gibson only participated in one raid with 617, Operation Chastise, the Dams Raid.
Ask your dad what he thought of Leonard Chesire or Johnny Farquir or Willie Tait the real commanders of 617 during its sniper squadron years 1943 - 1945.
Pathfinders were mainforce markers. 617 although part of 5 Group very rarely flew main force raids. Although Harris did have them mark some targets in 1944 most notably Munich. 617 used 619 squadron as area markers and target illumintors. They used 617 pilots flying Mossies , firstly Shannon, Cheshire, Munro and Martin as actual target markers. They even used a Mustang for daylight raids.
Anyway anyone who did what any of them did is a hero.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Anyone who flew in an aircraft over Germany in those days was/is a hero in my book. And I include the German pilots. The average bomber crewmember could expect to do 12 ops, before being killed:
Alcazar