spider

iTrader: (1)

Thought that would get your attention!

Before I say anything else, I just want to make it clear that I have no axe to grind on this, no complaints against any company or individual - just a personal desire for more info.

One of the places where I work has brought in a new policy about 'substance abuse', be it booze, drugs, licking toads or whatever.

Basically it says "don't do it at work". That's fair enough, I can understand that it wouldn't look very professional for a trainer (for example) to come in to a class of paying customers and breathe beer fumes on them!

Only thing is, they also say "visits to the pub during the working day are forbidden" and this is my main point: I'm wondering if this is legal?

I mean, if they give you an hour for lunch and you go offsite, do they still have control over you legally?

Like I say, I can understand them not wanting you to get lashed up and come back in. I can imagine the same rule in any industry, especially one involving heavy machinery etc. where a befuddled mind could kill or maim a colleague, but it's the first place I've ever worked where they have the rule.

Like I say, no axe, just a question that wandered its lonely way into the echoing chambers of my mind!

fast bloke

I don't think they can control where you go, but they could probably get away with sacking you if your boss saw you drinking a beer. Does the substance abuse thing mention caffine and nicotine? At a push, neither nicotine, caffine or alcohol are illegal. If you aint allowed a pint a lunchtime you could reasonably argue that no-one else should be allowed to drink cofee or smoke during working hours. Getting this pedantic will have one of two results.
1. You will get your way
2. You will get your P45

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Whether they reckon that alcohol has affected your ability to carry out the work for which you're employed...

Going to a pub & drinking orange juice would probably be OK (might have to prove it didn't have vodka in tho )

[This message has been edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! (edited 25 April 2001).]

carl

Interesting question -- it is true that nicotine and alcohol are both legal. It could be proven that you were unfit for work through excessive consumption of alcohol, but on the other hand smokers are likely to be off sick more often and you don't see them getting penalized for it.

camk

Be careful, I know some types of companies that if you are seen in the pub (Bus/Train co's) and you have your uniform on then your out.
If it were me I'd ask for a clarification from HR, in this case its likely that they mean no drinking but have worded it poorly. If you sign the changed contract and it says no pub and your in there then technically your stuffed as the law will say you agreed to this, regardless of what you think it inferred.
My last firm didn't allow drinking but have also raided local pubs and taken names, in these cases they needed to prove the people were drinking. They also tried to stop people leaving the facility 'For Safety Reasons' but that cannot work as your lunch break is free time, if you wanted to lick toads then its not their business as long as its not on company time.

Cammy

robski

Our guide at work states :

"abuse needs to definately and repeatedly interfere with work duties"

"can take place inside or outside the work environment"

"mustnt do so on the company premises"


where I previsouly worked which was maunfacturing was virtually identical to above.

I dont think legally they can change you rights to be able to have a drink, they can probably draw the line at the point where you would be breaking the law to be driving a car

anything you sign would have the ability to remove your rights to do something, but it has to be justified by the company, they cannot just get you to sign away all your rights because they feel like it

robski

spider

iTrader: (1)

Fast bloke - nope, no mention of caffiene or nicotine (or toad licking actually ). Hadn't thought of those 'stimulants'.

Cammy & Robski - there hasn't been any amended contract issued, just a note sent round on the corporate intranet saying 'from now on, this applies'. Make's it kinda hard to implement or officially punish anyone I'd have thought?

BTW Cammy, where was your last place - Area 51? Having said that, at my last but one job they sent the security guards round the local trading estate to take names of folk who were parking there as the companies on the trading estate complained.

As you can imagine, some officious ex-Pay Corps type coming up and barking "Name and business section?" at you met with various replies from the offenders (not me - I had a parking space!) - all in broad Anglo_Saxon!

boomer

Spider,

reply to HR, in writing, saying that you are not prepared to accept this new condition as part of your contract. If you don't do anything, then by default it will probably legally apply.

If you are in a union - check with them, else try your local Citizens Advice Bureau who have information and experts who may be able to help.

mb

carl

There will probably be something in your standard terms & conditions about varying your contract. Usually it will be if they notify you in writing you have seven days to object, and if you don't it's automatically assumed to be part of your contract.

For example, when they send you a letter saying you've got a £5,000 pay rise then this is actually a variation on your contract, but they don't issue a new contract.

Markus

fast bloke,
sounds like my office. most nights the directors and most of the tech staff bog off down the boozer, so as you say, if the boss says get down the pub, it'd be a sackable offence not to

Plus there is the fact that they have put a compay card behind the bar for the tech staff, so we can go down and get lashed up on the company! which is nice!

Jerome

As I was drinking champagne at work with half the office yesterday to congratulate a mad fool getting married this weekend, my mind went back to this thread. Far from banning it, they almost encourage it - in the office. The champagne comes out when these's any reason to celebrate. If they paid me more money, I'd stay here for a lot longer!

Markus

my company is pretty relaxed, but then we are a software house. We spend most of the day licking toads, don't seem to haf efected me in any wy

Seriously though, tis a good point. When I'm on-site we usually pop to the pub with clients, so a few ales are consumed, but we don't get too lashed up, obviously getting trashed in front of a client would not be very professional, so I usually offer them a toad to lick.

fast bloke

I used to work in the BBC as a techie. You didn't have to leave the building to get to the bar. Rules where, if you vomited on someones keyboard you where too drunk to work and should go home for the rest of the day. Also, falling down was a no no. We were not taking liberties, as it was usually the IT boss who took us to the bar and bought a few pints. If your boss says do it - you do it

spider

iTrader: (1)

Hurrah - it's all immaterial anyway! Just got accepted for a position at a publishing house north of Oxford

I know I won't be on my own either as there was a Catalunya in the staff car park when I went for my interview.

There were even ponds in the vicinity so there should be no shortage of toads to lick too

Mind you - I didn't check their boozing policy out, but hey - authors are known to be lushes aren't they?!

Roll on the 4th of June!

Happy Friday all,
Steve

MrData

I am on the board of directors in our company and remember this very issue being discussed.

We are a wholesale distribution company and had some very real issues to address as well as some past experience to go on.

We had a transport manager some time ago who turned alcoholic. He generally did a crap job, forgot things and gradually became very difficult to communicate with. The contents of his briefcase in the morning would include a round of sandwiches and six tins of beer. We had to introduce a "no drinking policy" in order to prevent this guy from drinking at work. It was unfortunate, but the only way we could be non-discriminatory was to enforce this among everyone. That was some time ago..........

About two years ago, we had a situtation where some of the forklift drivers would go down the pub at lunchtime and would return intoxicated to varying degrees. The sales team would do the same.

Both were an issue, but with the warehouse staff manouvering heavy loads and operating heavy machinery (forklift trucks) which is hazardous anyway and requires 100% concentration & judgement, we needed to re-enforce the statement.

Once again, to say that only the warehouse staff could not drink at lunchtime would have been discriminatory so we enforced the policy company wide. The most suprisiing thing of all was that 95% of the staff welcomed it and all of the staff still support and abide by the rule.

If your company has recently introduced such a policy, they are doing one, or two things;

1) Introducing the rule because of past experience with an employee.
2) Being responsible

We do however have a very strong social culture out of hours which probably helps with the enforcement of the rules. When we do all get together for a drink and a meal, we all really enjoy it. We still all go to the pub at lunchtime, but we all drink soft drinks. (it's not that bad - really)

Cheers
MrData

JayDee

Mr Data,

There is a third possible reason which is that some little tw@t in HR is trying to make a name for him/herself

I personally think that "HR" can become a purely parasitic function within an organisation.

JD