uncle buck

...and get banged up [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Justice, what justice?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2248635.stm

Tracey

This sort of thing makes you really angry, he was only protecting his own, like anyone would.

MarkO

Erm, sorry to rain on your parade, but the guy picked up the knife, walked in and stabbed the burglar in the heart. Slightly OTT, wouldn't you say?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I agree Tracey but don't you think that 12 stab wounds to the blokes back was just a tad excessive, ??????

Pavlo

12 times?

Maybe he would have got off if it was only once, even twice maybe. But on the 11 stroke (stab?) should he really have been thinking "gotta stab him once more, 11 times might not do it"

But I agree with the principle, we should have the right to protect our selves/family/homes.

Paul

Tiggs

i disagree..... he should habe knifed he 20 times. he has no idea at what point he has disabled the intruder, what if the first 5 blows left the bloke still capable of fighting back???

this is disgusting, this chap has done the police a favour.

if someone broke in my house i would want the law to allow me to kill them to ensure they could not retaliate.

T

ps- hope the jury all get home and find they have been done over while they where busy putting this bloke in jail.

MarkO

Don't be so daft, Tiggs. By all account the intruder was unarmed, and this guy enters the flat, picks up a knife and walks into the room with the intruder, stabbing him twelve times in the back?!!?

It doesn't even sound like the intruder had a chance to explain himself.

If he'd been stabbed once, twice or even possibly 3 times, maybe I'd feel sympathy. But 12 times is just daft and OTT.

Tiggs

"It doesn't even sound like the intruder had a chance to explain himself."

ohh, im sorry..i was robbing you, im scum.

evil nasty scum is dead, good. the world just got lighter!

T

uncle buck

You can't say for sure how you would react in a similar situation. When the red mist decends and protect/survive instincts kick in you just 'go for it' and think about the consequences later.

The guy was a scumbag anyway so it goes some way to address the balance for all the other scumbags kill old ladies for thier fish supper, run people over trying to stop car thieves, molest and murder little girls, shoot people for mobile phones etc.

Tiggs

marko, if i was robbing you and you found me and stabbed me 3 times with a kitchen knife you better make sure you hit something vital inside me otherwise i will turn round and KILL YOU!

what you gonna do, give me 2 jabs then weigh up the situation? you now have one mean scumbag in your house with a body full of adrenaline! and a couple of minor flesh wounds.

T

MarkO

I'd only stab the guy once, personally.

I'd just make damned sure that it was a 14" hunting knife and it went straight through his neck.

Pavlo

LOL @ tiggs.

A quick stabbing with a kitchen knife is not a paltry affair. If you're a crap aim, and you get the shoulder the first time, your victim can most likely still fight back. If you get a lung, it will put him in a lot of pain, and he will begin to drown in his own blood, and slow quickly. 2 lungs and he'll need to be still fairly quickly in order to survive the wait for medical care. If you aim low, the liver is very large, and bleeds profusely, the gut very painful, but your best chance of survival apart from purely muscular damage.

I'll give you that the heart is quite hard to hit from behind, but if you do manage to get it, death with occur in seconds, it will apparent very quickly that there is now a corpse on the floor where once there was a man.

The above is based purely on anatomy rather than practical experience.

It's not like films where people get stabbed a few time but are still able to get the bad guy. Getting stabbed seriously impedes your progress.

P

Tiggs

14 " hunting knife? always one of them in the kitchin!

reminds me of rambo when the cop says "whats this for" holding up johns knife, "hunting" he says "hunting what" ...rambo says "the enemy"

Tiggs

"A quick stabbing with a kitchen knife is not a paltry affair"

nor a pastry affair i assume, you'd need a rollin pin for that

ian/555

The reports I saw said that the intruder was carrying a crowbar and the victim of the burglary thought that the other guy was tooled up with a Machete now what would you do if someone was going around the house with what you thought was a machete while your kids are asleep upstairs?

Not the usual tool of someone nicking the VCR I would think, but in the circumstances I think that the guy was justified in stopping the intruder in what ever way was needed. I can speak from personnel experience here, that when you are stabbed you might not know straight away that it has happened, I didn't know myself that I had been stabbed in the chest for another 5 minutes, I felt something on my chest and when I pulled my T-shirt out of my jeans there was about a pint of blood. I did not collapse but instead I walked 2 miles to the nearest Hospital.

Now who is to say that it was not until the 12th time this guy had the knife stuck in him that his heart was punctured.
The prospect of a nutter with a Machete going round the house while your kids are asleep would not be an option for most parents. If after the 11th blow the guy was still up and about would you just let them carry on because you was afraid of what might happen to you in Court? Or would you be more afraid of what this person could do to your kids with a Machete.

ian

Pavlo

Oh well then, machette and cro-bar are not exactly "unarmed".

I wonder if the intruder said "I submit" after stab number 7?

Still think 12 is a bit OTT!

But there's no telling what you might do if put in the same situation.

The problem with these things, is they say "reasonable force", but tend to define reasonable force it terms of what the intruder does. So you have to wait for him to try and stab you before stabbing him becomes reasonable force.

Ian/555, nice work getting stabbed btw, bet the walk was fun, trust you are fine now.

Paul

DavidRB

Nice to know that burglars are considered less of a social problem than speeding motorists.

So exactly how badly does a criminal have to behave before the European Court of Human Rights (which is where this nonsense comes from) won't protect them?

As usual, judges come down like a ton of bricks on vigilantes because they consider them to be a cause of social collapse. Sadly, they are not a cause of social collapse, they are caused by social collapse.

DanTheMan

He deserves to be dead anyway, its the risk he's taken.....
poor bloke getting banged up like that, loads of people would do the same.

So what are you supposed to do in these instances, offer your help to load up the burglars swag bag, hand over your car keys too, and maybe make the guy a cuppa as he crowbars you over the head when youre not looking !!!

imatrukahs

This is amazing!!!!I think the geezer will be best in a metal institute..fair dos kill the intruder..but stabbing him 12 times is insanity.....i would guess he had just watched The Patriot..LOL.

Jolly Green Monster 2

I think you should be allowed to protect your family and property but stabbing someone 12times in the back is not protecting that is killing someone..

Stabbing once in the back and I think he would be justified or confronting the guy and then stabbing him once or twice would be okay as self defence/protecting family but 12times!!

Difficult to control that rage when you think someone is attacking your family though I guess but still cannot see me stabbing someone 12times, once or twice and then onto the men he supposively thought were in the bedroom threatening the kids..

Tiggs

JGM,

what if after 1 or 2 or 3 stabs he was still standing?

Jolly Green Monster 2

Depends if you mean standing or attacking..

I suppose it is easy to sit here and firstly say I wouldn't have stabbed him 12 times but then if he continued attacking me I suppose I would continue stabbing him.. but then no if you mean standing with back to me then no, not even sure if I would stab someone in the back at all unless direct threat to my family.

Dunno, it is difficult to know how you would react to this situation whcih is why it is hard to decide whether he should do time for it or not.

I can see me shouting "oi what **** are you doing" then confronting the guy... rather than just stabbing him...

At the end of the day I'd rather be doing time than my family hurt... but there is then the argument of who is protecting the family whilst you are doing time so reasonable force should be applied not stabbing someone 12 frigging times as I think that is excessive...

It said on there that he thought the guy had a machette? then how did he stab him in the back if he was coming at his with a machette? something doesn't add up... hence I guess why he is getting convicted rather than self defence... etc.?

JGM

imatrukahs

The thing is.......i am trained in martial arts......I am taught only to defend and never attack.....I would like to think that in the same situation(which is defending my house) i would have just knocked the f*cker spark out...then pi$$ed on him...then called five-0...(Dont worry bout the pi$$ing bit,as i have never had a chance to use my skills so i would want to go,in all the excitement)

AnDy_PaNdY

He should have melted the body in acid, it worked for Martin Clunes.

Jolly Green Monster 2

Perhaps they should make it okay to kill someone in protecting your property / family and perhaps scumbags might think twice..

Probably not though they'd probably get tooled up before the jobs....

imatrukahs

Dangerous ground all this violence towards burglars!Like JGM says....it will just make them come prepared....think of it as an anti biotic,the more you use it the less effective it becomes...

MJW

What if the burglar had been killed with the first stab wound ? One swipe could easily be self defence, despite it being fatal. I wonder if he'd have fared any better in court if this had been the case. I reckon the judge/jury have gone to town on the fact there was 12 stab wounds and it looks to be a more frenzied/sustained attack.

Fast_Blue_Scooby

The fact is that he did stab him 12 times, whatever his sanity or his reasons why, he did it. The question is why did he do it? Well looking at what goes on in this country, crimes such as rapes, children being murdered, houses getting ransacked, car jacking etc etc, then the lack of justice when the criminals are caught. Maybe the bloke just lost it. Who can blame him? Plus who knows what you would do in that situation until it happens. Kids and wife in bed, an intruder breaks in, you think he is armed, what do you do? Talk and try and reason with him? What if he is high on drugs and doesn't care if he kills you, what happens if he attacks the kids or there are a few of them and they go to rape your wife. Don't criticise someone for what they did defending their propery and family, they did it because they have been driven to it. Maybe I would have done the same, who knows, maybe you would have acted the same. But if we are going to hear of people being killed in the newspapers, then I would rather hear stories like this rather than innocent men, women and children being murdered.

Luke

Bloke sounds like a nutter...Thank god he wasnt drunk and went into the wrong house. 12 times..........mad

Ralf

No one could tell how he reacts if his wife and children were in danger until it happens.

Anyway, a short test of stabbing someone in a frenzy by moving my arm forward as fast as possible and back 12 times revealed that it took less than 4 seconds to do so. Within this period of time I could certainly not determine if this someone (scumbag) is temporarily out of order and fit for a later discussion about the selfishness of property or seriously damaged. Also, I understood that 11 stabs were non lethal. And wife and children still thought to be in danger!

So, to prevent houseowners from misjudging situations and save them from prison trainings with burglars should be held to (insert suggestions please) them with one single action.