bioforger

iTrader: (1)

RB5320 not necessarily, payrises are still discreational, so you might, you might not, and if u do its only going to be an inflationary increase atm (what I got) Point is they didnt even tell us they were going to do this.

Brickboy my boss is his brother im convinced

[Edited by bioforger - 9/4/2002 2:04:30 PM]

shunty

quickest way to a pay rise/better position.....move on to a different company. You will always get 1 or 2 people who had been promoted with the same company but I bet the majority havn't.

certainly the case for me but I say what I mean, I WILL be management material 1 day, just need to start talking loads of bullsh1t & lie to everyone

ps - I have also never had a proper pay review, training or anything else......

edited to add "must also forget all my technical knowledge if I pursue the management route"

shunty

[Edited by shunty - 9/4/2002 3:40:56 PM]

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Cant believe this been in this company 12years, and today I find out that said company has decided to link our pay rises and when we will get them to the performance appraisal without telling anyone they were changing to this format! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] All the times before our pay increases were not linked to the appraisal! and no communication at all from anyone (boss/head office) about the change! Also if a person gets an overall score of 'I' (Improvement required) they have to wait another 5months before a re-review takes place. And if an improvement hasnt been made no payrise at all! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Does this company suck or what... [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Advice? as we cant do a thing about it, it seems. Even the managers didnt know about it until recently.

MarkO

I've never had an appraisal at any time during my 10-year career. Closest I got was a chat at the pub with my boss, in my first job, where he told me that I was getting the largest percentage payrise in the company so to keep my mouth shut.

Never had any sort of performance review or anything like that since.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

cheers mark that makes me feel a whole feckin lot better [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

brickboy

Any of the board members called David Brent?

RB5320

presumably this is good news for people who get good appraisals?

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Forgot to say, no one here has had a payrise for 2yrs either [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

RB5320

thank you for not biting my head off as I was just about to amend what I wrote. yes, what I was intending to say was that it is ok so long as they (the management or whatever) do genuinely reward those who deserve it. however, it is entirely wrong to bring in something like that unannounced.

worley

I've been working for companies who have used this format for years. It does work well if implemented properly, the whole process should take a few hours and not five minutes over lunch - this is your future and your pay rise.

All comments have to be quantitative with examples of good and bad performance, you can't just say Dave is crap and can't do his job!

It is also a good tool to get rid of people....

What I would advise is that there is a 360 degree feedback part of the form and that here, you get to appraise in part your boss (and possibly tell him nicely what an incompetant to$$er he is - quantitatively of course with detailed examples and diagrams if necessary).

Also, in the interests of fairness there should be a section within which you can comment on the appraisal when the appraisal has been completed.

This at least allows you to air your thoughts on the whole system.

Hope this helps!

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Worley cheers yes, we use to use a 360 format, but this has been replaced by this new (to us) scheme. Unfortunately though all the appraisals were completed before we knew this was happening! So comments could'nt be made about the lack of communication for a start. Really gets my goat. Just wish there was a way we could do something about it, as it seems totally unfair for some people.

Mungo

Sounds like crap communication, but the new process must surely be better - I've not really known anything else. Good people get pay rises, and bad people don't. Hopefully if you feel badly done to (e.g. your boss has got it in for you) you have a chance to give your own feedback to more senior management on why you feel that way.

Alpine

**** communication.. good system.. why do the British believe it's on the statute that we're ENTITLED to a yearly rise?

You could always leave for greener pastures if you resent it so much..

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

I resent it so much due to the cack communication. After 2years of hardwork n no recognition for it, I probably will move on.

Alpine

Bio not trying to be awkward or start an argument but I am interested in what people expect from their employer.. Reasonable communication BTW, I totally agree with you on..

Your sentence

'2years of hardwork n no recognition for it'

is interesting. When I pay people OR am being paid I expect to word hard. Presumably you were paid for the last two years so what other 'Recognition' is there that's worth having? If you've worked hard AND achieved more than colleagues on similar contracts then this is what you need to bring out at your appraisal and this is your argument for better pay.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Alpine no problem, nothing wrong with a debate. Without getting into my personal job details (there is more to it than I want to say) I expect to be paid at least an amount which will cover the increase in a cost of living for that year (inflation) Also I would expect some recognition for work completed that was not in my original job title or last appraisal, or for new roles taken on. Which is what happened in the last 2years. My peers did not do additional work. Instead I get a crappy 4% raise n find out the whole appraisal system has changed

S55 HOT

[flame suit on]
Are you really naieve enough to think that performance reviews and pay rises were not linked before ?

They are always linked in some way, even if it's more informal. Think about it - you get a crap review you get nothing, you're a super star you get a rise. Sounds like they're just being honest.

Are you saying that if you are an underperformer then you should be entitled to a good rise ?
[/flame suit off]

scoob_babe

don't forget to take market conditions into account here.
Our part of the company has been performing consistently well over the last couple of years. We only got 2% pay rise but the other sections of the company got nothing. And before you say it, yes I have done stuff that wasn't in the original job description, its just what has to be done as there's no place for 'its not my job'.
I'm lucky I still have a job as an IT consultant, plenty of others weren't.

MarkO

Good point, well made.

Many places have been asking contractors (particularly) to take a pay cut or have their contracts terminated.

So a 4% rise doesn't look quite so bad, really, particularly given that inflation is < 3%.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Yes i know, our industry was in the same slump to. But we were promised that as soon as the outlook was better and the company was back in profit (which it is) we would all get a payrise on top of the annual increase if justified. (in my case yes!)

S55HOT [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] I know for a fact our appraisals were not linked directly to out payrises. Of course they have an impact (duh) but not as directly as they are now! Its naive btw

S55 HOT

Spelling never was my strong point

Well I guess good luck for this year and next year learn how to play the appraisal system and focus on getting a good score next year.

Dave P

Sorry it stands to reason that a performance appraisal is linked to pay. You don't perform you get sacked, you perform ok you get paid ok if you perform well you get a good rise.

A 4pct payrise is twice the current rate of inflation, but I appreciate that 4% of sfa is sfa.

In general the economic outlook isn't that good which is why the Bank of England left rates where they were today. In an environment where many people are losing jobs employers are ofcourse taking some advantage of this. In the past 6 months 5 of my good freinds have lost their jobs, fortunately they have all found new jobs, but not after some time and much worry.

In any case my advise would be not to quit until you have another job lined up.

Dave

Ian Griffiths

Sounds excellent in principle but of course the main fear is that it's just a platform on which to save money or implement favoritism. I'd personally have nothing against it as I get on very well with my seniors and can quantitively prove to have been doing good things for the company. Might not please my colleages though...

robski

Well I used to work for AXA, they had appraisals.

Biggest pile of ****e ever. Totally corrupt system, in that objectives were set for ****e, so they never really were measurable by the time appraisals happened. I remember going to a meeting specifically held for telling us how to mark people down, I spent 2 hours giving the guy from HR a bad time, using their own documents to shoot down what they were telling us to do

The worst thing however was that they suited the people who were average, and were more interested in rubbish like courses and admin than getting the job done. You could beat expectations in every target, but underachieve in 1, if you stuck to the letter of the rules you had underachieved and would be shafted come payrise time.

My new companies approach of "we will pay market rate to good people" and "we wont pay under market rate for poor staff to save a few grand" makes much more sense to me.

My tip if you are going to be appraised. INSIST that your objectives are SMART, Specific Measurable Achievable Realistic and Timely (Timely = meets all the others but be made impossible by unrealistic timescales) dont agree to any that arent the above.
It will really **** them off if you stick to your guns about it.

robski