Stephen Read

Need to drive from Basel to Zebrugge in a day to catch a ferry soon and assuming that at least some of this will be in Germany, it'll give me my first experience of the Autobahns

Question 1

How can you tell when you are on an unrestricted Autobahn? (Appart from the fact that other drivers will be doing the far side of 160kmph?)

Question 2

Would it worth while trying to maximise the milage in Germany to take advantage of faster roads? Autoroute Express indicates that I should head out of Germany at Strasbourg! but I could always blast up via Frankfurt and turn left at Cologne!

Cheers,





[Edited by Stephen Read - 7/23/2002 5:03:21 PM]

camk

Any Autobahn(MWay) road that has the same sign as national speed limit in UK e.g. white with black diagonal through it is technically unrestricted. The exception is if its wet, if its wet then 130 is your limit. As with everything though its limited in other ways such as your insurance not paying out damage to your own car if its proved your driving at reckless speeds. Watch out for tailgating as there are cameras specifically for that and NEVER overtake on the inside as I think its 40 or 50 quid per car. Lane discipline is usually very good and people move over if they see faster cars coming, however accept it now that you'll not be tha fastest car on the road. Enjoy and watch your distances.

Cheers
Cammy

Claudius

If you are certain that you are in Germany and if you are certain that you are on a motorway, then you know that THERE IS NO GENERAL SPEED LIMIT which means that you are allowed to go as fast as your car can if you so wish.
There are, however, occasional speed limits at motorway entrances (which are relatively short as built a LOOONG time ago) or dangerous accident spots.


I think the route your programme gave you is good. The Cologne area is very packed pretty much all the time, dont go around there. Watch it in Belgium and the Netherlands, the Police there sucks!

Claudius

Oh, and REGULARLY (every ten seconds at least) watch your rear view mirror! There are cars going over 200 mph there!

camk

My answer to question 2 would be probably not worth the bother just for the Autobahn experience. You'll get some of the A5 up from Switzerland which isn't too bad in stretches. Your road to Zeebrugge would be A3 to Aachen which is also OK but has roadworks in bits at the moment and can get very congested on holiday weekends and rush hour. Remember as well that no HGV's can drive on A/Bahns on a Sunday(unless they carry perishable goods), other days one lane is usually pretty solid lorries. If you can read German(Basel being a German speaking area) I can give you a site with all speed camera details but I'm not sure if Germany and Switerland have reciprocal agreements. As a foreigner you'll be expected to pay any fines on the spot or at the nearest cash point If you get caught by any Police Opel Vectras... I've never seen a police car on the Autobahn in over 2 years. BTW they enforce limits strictly in roadworks, watch out for those cameras.

Regards
Cammy

zax

I did Zeebrugge to Copenhagen last week. Autobahn didn't live up to my excited expectations Don't get me wrong, it would have been great to cruise around 130mph on a clear road, but I found myself managing half a mile at that speed before coming down to 60 as a couple of trucks drove beside each other for a few miles. Then it was back on the gas, up to cruising speed, slow down for more trucks and repeat all the way to Denmark.

As others have said, lane discipline was good, watch out for a flash and a left indicator from behind. They want to pass. Did nearly have a brown trouser moment when, as I was waiting for a slower car to pull over, a Bentley came up behind at extremely high speed and left the braking a little late

Conclusion - good fun in a fast Audi or a BMW but give me and the scooby the twisties any day...

camk

Claudius,
Its only no limit when its posted with National Speed limit and its dry, there are still plenty of 130 bits around, certainly in Hessen and surrounding areas.

Cheers
Cammy

Claudius

The Police in Germany have very fast cars (compared to average) with good top speed, ie Porsches and M5s.

In Switzerland, if you go over 2kmh over the limit, you will have to pay.

camk

anyone know of any countries have reciprocal agreements on identifying foreign cars photographed over the limit on their roads ?

Claudius

What about this then? an exerpt from the StVO, article 3c:

(3) Die zulässige Höchstgeschwindigkeit beträgt auch unter günstigsten Umständen

1. innerhalb geschlossener Ortschaften für alle Kraftfahrzeuge 50 km/h,

2. außerhalb geschlossener Ortschaften

a) für Kraftfahrzeuge mit einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht über 2,8 t bis 7,5 t, ausgenommen Personenkraftwagen, für

Personenkraftwagen mit Anhänger und Lastkraftwagen bis zu einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht von 2,8 t mit Anhänger und für Kraftomnibusse, auch mit Gepäckanhänger 80 km/h,

b) für Kraftfahrzeuge mit einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht über 7,5 t, für alle Kraftfahrzeuge mit Anhänger, ausgenommen Personenkraftwagen sowie Lastkraftwagen bis zu einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht von 2,8 t und für Kraftomnibusse mit Fahrgästen, für die keine Sitzplätze mehr zur Verfügung stehen 60 km/h,

c) für Personenkraftwagen sowie für andere Kraftfahrzeuge mit einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht bis 2,8 t 100 km/h. Diese Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkung gilt nicht auf Autobahnen (Zeichen 330) sowie auf anderen Straßen mit Fahrbahnen für eine Richtung, die durch Mittelstreifen oder sonstige bauliche Einrichtungen getrennt sind. Sie gilt ferner nicht auf Straßen, die mindestens zwei durch Fahrstreifenbegrenzung (Zeichen 295) oder durch Leitlinien (Zeichen 340) markierte Fahrstreifen für jede Richtung haben.

Claudius

I'll translate it for you:

Diese Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkung gilt nicht auf Autobahnen (Zeichen 330) sowie auf anderen Straßen mit Fahrbahnen für eine Richtung, die durch Mittelstreifen oder sonstige bauliche Einrichtungen getrennt sind. Sie gilt ferner nicht auf Straßen, die mindestens zwei durch Fahrstreifenbegrenzung (Zeichen 295) oder durch Leitlinien (Zeichen 340) markierte Fahrstreifen für jede Richtung haben.

"This speed limit (100 kmh on A roads) is not valid on the motorways (marked by the sign number 330) and other roads with a one-way direction that are separated by a construction which separates the two opposite directions. Neither is this speed limit valid on dual carriageways where the opposite directions are separated by rails (sign number 340)"

Stephen Read

Thanks guys. I am already looking forward to it!

My Boxster 2.7 should get its first decent high speed run!

Tell me about the Swiss and their overzealous speed controls! After selling my Scoob, I bought the 2.7 because I knew that if I went for a 911, or even a Boxster S, I would be likely to get into too much trouble down here!

PS. Did a 900km day return to Magny Cours on Saturday and was pulled over once on a Route National and given a ticking off but no fine Vive la France!

Don't know about reciprocal speeding fines but my company recently had to pay for a parking fine on a german registered car that was caught in Austria! A measly €32 and they still bothered to collect cross-border

camk

Claudius,
If its posted 130 its 130, you'll find Motorway posted at 130 in Germany. Not all Motoroway/Abahn in Germany is unlimited, posted signs take priority. The quote your showing is describing the difference between Country Roads outside of Towns(Landstrasse)(where 100KMPH is boringly adhered to by 99% of population) and Autobahns when the National Speed limit sign is posted. The point is that unless its posted on a Dual Carriageway as National Speed limit its not a blanket certainty that its unlimited.

Best Regards
Cammy

[Edited by camk - 7/23/2002 6:04:17 PM]

Brendan Hughes

I can only think of two points:

1. I did a road trip through Germany a few years ago, I can't remember the signs but I can remember that it was quite clear which roads were derestricted and which weren't. Probably one had our NSL sign and another had a big "130" or something Teutonically logical.

2. Big tip: try to gauge it so your fuel tank is empty as you pass through Luxembourg. Their fuel is (or was, am I out of date?) about 25% cheaper than the rest of Europe.

BJH

Claudius

Cammy,

I have no idea what you mean by "National speed limit sign". Such a thing doesnt exist in Germany.

I am telling you that there is no general speed limit on the German motorways, and I quoted the law for you.

I will try and tell you this in different languages so you understand it

There is no general speed limit on German motorways
Il n'y a pas de limitation de vitesse généralisée sur autoroute en Allemagne
Es gibt in Deutschland keine generelle Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung auf der Autobahn
No c'è una limità di velocità generale sull'autostrada in Germania

Sorry, I dont speak Spanish

If you still disagree and think there is a 130 kmh limit for rainy days, then cry me a river

Claudius

Agreed. I said some portions, especially accident spots, highway entrances and good money collecting straight lines are sometimes limited (scroll up). Talking about the general speed limit.

Cammy Claudius

camk

130's are normally crappy bits or non-upgraded A/Bahn or cronically congested bits, but they can be long in some areas. There is a 14 KM stretch of the A5 south of here(Frankfurt/Wiesbaden area) thats 4 big wide lanes and dead straight for the whole 14 km. Its all concrete so a bit strange to drive on. Its definately not 130
When I say national speed limit I mean signed under the same sign as in the UK, white with black diagonal.I'm trying to convey my message across national borders However we're unlikely to lose sleep over our discussions (unlike those baby on board signs )

Cheers
Cammy

PS, thanks for the help on the German but I can get by

PPS the limits are changed down on the roads if its wet or foggy. On some roads they even use manual signs to do this, you can see them in the middle of the 2 carrigeways but are side on in good conditions. I mean what the hell would I know having lived here

[Edited by camk - 7/23/2002 8:07:21 PM]

[Edited by camk - 7/23/2002 8:13:44 PM]

Dirty_Den

The only thing to add to the above is that there are not only speed restrictions in place due to weather conditions, but during particular times. These will also be identified under the sign.

Alos note that although (IIRC) the Germans cannot put points on your licence, they can fine you on the spot and have the power to empound your car if you are unable/unwilling to pay. My friend who visits Germany regularly, suggested carrying a couple of hundred quid qorth of euros with you, to cover the worst. Apparently they don't take cheques, nor credit cards.

Den

Claudius

I've only lived in Germany for 12 years, so you probably know better, cammy.

Regards

Claudius

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Claudius, thanks for all this usefull information about speed limits I will pass it on to my 33 year old German friend so he can get his 300 mark fine back from the police for doing 140kmh in a 100kmh zone on the autobahn south of Kahlsruhe.

So does this mean that the signposts with a round circle and red border saying 80 100 120 130 do not actually mean anything? and the speeding fine I got the other day for doing 94 in a 80 on the autobahn heading towards Kahlsruhe I can just throw away.????

PS. Hi Cammy hows life??


[Edited by Wurzel - 7/24/2002 12:10:21 PM]

GeeJay

I've lived in Frankfurt for 10 months now and have driven back to the UK 4 times via Calais (will be doing it for the last time this weekend !).

The route from Frankfurt up the A3 takes you to Cologne then onto the A4 towards Aachen. The A3 is generally unrestricted and there are some great stretches on it both dead straight and flat, and winding as well. However there are a number of roadworks with cameras which have posted limits as low as 60kmh in some places. Rush hour times can be a mare on the A3 as well ! The A4 is mainly restricted though and has quite alot of roadworks at the moment.

I have a company BMW 330 which is fine on the motorway although i do regret not bringing my Subaru out here for the winding bits on the A3!!

Shortest journey time from Frankfurt to Calais has been 4.5 hours for the 600kms - piece of advice, mapping sites will direct you around Brussels from Frankfurt - although it is slightly shorter avoid Brussels as every time I went this way I was delayed quite significantly.

Since being in Germany i have been done for speeding 4 times - accumulated 4 points (18 for a ban) and paid approy €150 in fines - considering i have only been done once in the UK i thought this was quite an achievement - i even have the pictures to prove it from the forward facing cameras

Enjoy Germany but avoid rush hours on the Autobahns

MarkCSC

Not having lived in Germany, unable to speak the language but having been there a couple of times....

I saw an infinity sign, you know an 8 on it's side. I was told this meant that the motorway was unrestricted. This true?
It was near Berlin BTW

camk

Geejay,
Do you actually stay in F/Furt centre. I'm twenty minutes north of the City Centre near Koenigstein. Never been done for speeding in the UK and have been done here twice in 2 years an my wifes been done twice as well. I got 3 points for 139 in a 100 zone(restricted A/Bahn on A5 southbound), which was lucky as 40 over is a ban.

Wurzel,
Things still fine here, weather been crappy so far this summer which is not good as I decided to have summer here and take a later break somewhere hot. We're driving to Prague next week for a few days as my parents are over and can babysit for a few days.

Cheers
Cammy

GeeJay

Camk - yes - i do live in Frankfurt centre but try to leave as much as possible !! I have been up to Königstein a few times, up to the peak near there - would be good in the Scoobie !

My speeding history goes something like this :

Feb 02 - 129kmh in a 100 - motorway - €68 + 3 points
Mar 02 - 117kmh in a 100 - A road - €30 + no points
Apr 02 - 128kmh in a 100 - motorway - €68 + 1 point
Jun 02 - 60kmh in a 50 - main road thro town - €15 + no points

Enjoy, I'm out of here back to blighty at the end of the month

GeeJay

Camk - yes - i do live in Frankfurt centre but try to leave as much as possible !! I have been up to Königstein a few times, up to the peak near there - would be good in the Scoobie !

My speeding history goes something like this :

Feb 02 - 129kmh in a 100 - motorway - €68 + 3 points
Mar 02 - 117kmh in a 100 - A road - €30 + no points
Apr 02 - 128kmh in a 100 - motorway - €68 + 1 point
Jun 02 - 60kmh in a 50 - main road thro town - €15 + no points

Enjoy, I'm out of here back to blighty at the end of the month

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Cammy when are you coming down to Stuttgart then?

camk

Wurzel,
You know us Hessians don't like Gateaux , I missed the last meet as I was in US working. I'm up for it but we need the right occasion

Cheers
Cammy

cheeseboy

Wow, this thread is a laugh! BTW, Hi Cammy, Steve. I hope on your trip you have indeed planned through stuttgart and Munich

Stephen R, it is usually pretty obvious when you are on an autobahn, there is a huge blue sign with a picture of an autobahn on it! As you enter a country, they also have signs depicting the max speed limits for the particular sections of road. On the autobahns it is generally 130 or 120 (depending on the sign you see). 130 is a big square blue sign with white numbers. Other speed signs are the circular ones with the number inside. For an open zone (unrestricted speed) there is a circular white sign with black lines through it. It also has (sometimes) numbers like 120 etc under it. This means it is the end of that zone and is now unrestricted. If a sign has a smaller sign under it, for example the words bei nasse etc, then this sign is only valid for that condition - whether it be raining, foggy, or even for a quiet zone (lamschultz). Once you end the autobahn, the same autobahn sign will be seen, but crossed out. We also have land streets - like country roads or just normal streets but not within cities. If you see an unrestricted sign as before, it means a limit of 100kph. Within cities though, (denoted by a square yellow sign with black writing) the speed limit is 50kph, unless otherwise posted. It is occasionally 60, but it will have a sign saying so. If you are unsure, then look up the side streets. If you see a 30 speed sign, then you are on a 50kph area.

Viel Spaß, and have fun.

Neal

Bluie

Our friends in Germany with no speed limits!

Watch the none restricted areas where they impose a restriction of 130 kph due to weather/trafic/money collection reason.

Got pulled, on video in these areas doing 180+kph.

If German they retain your licence there and then, £100 fine and a few points, however due to being a foriegneer you keep your licence no points and £250 fine. They even have an an old style credit swipe machine.

To be far they were in an unmarked silver BMW and wearing chinos and chequered shirts, but of course the guns.

I'd have to say they were good in that they did not loo over the car for other points such as lights/GB sticker etc

Enjoy speeding where you can, I found it easier in a Scooby than an R34 due to the Scoop, people do not move over in the R34

Bluie

If you do get pulled in Germany do not try BS it will work against you, just agree and take the punishment.

You got caught.

They can get ****ty, and they have a gun.