Amp + Sub Install **ADVICE PLEASE**
03 March 2002, 05:20 PM
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All,
I Have recently purchased a 12" Pioneer sub with carpeted 'wedge' stlye box, and a Pioneer Amp to run it. Im installing the kit on Saturday but I am stuck on how / where to put all of it!? Also, is Dynamat any good? Pioneer recommend I lay noise + vibration control padding inside the sub box. I was thinking of laying it on the boot floor aswell, if its any good?
For my install, I was thinking of using x-tra strength velcro to hold the Sub box in place behind the rear passenger seats and mounting the Amp on some MDF next to the Sub. Haw have you lot fitted your kit? All advice welcome
TIA
James
I Have recently purchased a 12" Pioneer sub with carpeted 'wedge' stlye box, and a Pioneer Amp to run it. Im installing the kit on Saturday but I am stuck on how / where to put all of it!? Also, is Dynamat any good? Pioneer recommend I lay noise + vibration control padding inside the sub box. I was thinking of laying it on the boot floor aswell, if its any good?
For my install, I was thinking of using x-tra strength velcro to hold the Sub box in place behind the rear passenger seats and mounting the Amp on some MDF next to the Sub. Haw have you lot fitted your kit? All advice welcome
TIA
James
06 March 2002, 11:04 AM
#2
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Didn't the box come with padding inside already? Do you have to unscrew the sub to put this wadding in? Use some fibrefill, the manual (if you got one with the sub) should say what to use.
Don't use industrial strength velcro, as soon as you pull away quickly it'll disconnect itself and slam around your boot, disconnecting the cables and possibly having them short. Get some of that nylon webbing from your local DIY store and strap it in with that, you can anchor it to the hinge of your back seats
Steve.
Don't use industrial strength velcro, as soon as you pull away quickly it'll disconnect itself and slam around your boot, disconnecting the cables and possibly having them short. Get some of that nylon webbing from your local DIY store and strap it in with that, you can anchor it to the hinge of your back seats
Steve.
06 March 2002, 01:35 PM
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WOAH THERE JAMES!!!!!
Okay, Dynamat, Brown Bread and all of these things are vibration dampers, of one form or another. Basically, they work by preventing the (metal or plastic) panel they're attached to from resonating. That way, you get less boomy noises and the sound is tighter and stronger. This is a good thing.
However, putting Dynamat into a sub box is a BAAAAD thing! This will have little or no positive effect and could very possibly start to absorb some of your lovely subbage.
In a sub-box, you've got a resonance chamber which is, in theory, sealed to the outside world by the sub itself. (Of course, this sealed-ness is only a function of how good the joins are - more of this later) Trouble is, any sealed chamber with a resonating thing in it (the sub) will have at least one frequency where it matches harmonics and the whole thing booms like a boomy thing called Mr Boom. This, unless you want to go into SPL competition, is a bad thing
The solution is to fill the sub-box with loft insulation (or similar glass-fibre stuff). This will change the resonant frequency of the box and absorb a lot of the excess boom. I'm kinda hoping this is what your supplier meant.
Oh yeah, sealing the box. Assuming your sub-box isn't a ported one (doesn't have a great big pipe poking out somewhere) then the depth of the sound is greatly controlled by how airtight the box is. Before you fill the box with loft-insulation, go around all of the wood-joins in the box (on the inside) with silicone sealant (bath-sealant's fine) to completely cover all the joins. Leave this to dry for at least a couple of days ('coz the fumes _can_ damage the rubber on the sub cone) and then screw your sub in VERY TIGHTLY. If you've done a good job, you should be able to push the sub cone in with your hand and it won't move much at all. (To give you an idea, I can literally lean on mine and they drop about 1cm and stop)
Sorry for the massive post - hope it's useful
Richard
Okay, Dynamat, Brown Bread and all of these things are vibration dampers, of one form or another. Basically, they work by preventing the (metal or plastic) panel they're attached to from resonating. That way, you get less boomy noises and the sound is tighter and stronger. This is a good thing.
However, putting Dynamat into a sub box is a BAAAAD thing! This will have little or no positive effect and could very possibly start to absorb some of your lovely subbage.
In a sub-box, you've got a resonance chamber which is, in theory, sealed to the outside world by the sub itself. (Of course, this sealed-ness is only a function of how good the joins are - more of this later
) Trouble is, any sealed chamber with a resonating thing in it (the sub) will have at least one frequency where it matches harmonics and the whole thing booms like a boomy thing called Mr Boom. This, unless you want to go into SPL competition, is a bad thing The solution is to fill the sub-box with loft insulation (or similar glass-fibre stuff). This will change the resonant frequency of the box and absorb a lot of the excess boom. I'm kinda hoping this is what your supplier meant.
Oh yeah, sealing the box. Assuming your sub-box isn't a ported one (doesn't have a great big pipe poking out somewhere) then the depth of the sound is greatly controlled by how airtight the box is. Before you fill the box with loft-insulation, go around all of the wood-joins in the box (on the inside) with silicone sealant (bath-sealant's fine) to completely cover all the joins. Leave this to dry for at least a couple of days ('coz the fumes _can_ damage the rubber on the sub cone) and then screw your sub in VERY TIGHTLY. If you've done a good job, you should be able to push the sub cone in with your hand and it won't move much at all. (To give you an idea, I can literally lean on mine and they drop about 1cm and stop
)Sorry for the massive post - hope it's useful
Richard
06 March 2002, 06:44 PM
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Well you wont get any better info than that The last box I bought had already been sealed on the inside with some silicon sealant, and if you can source a rubber ring to seal the sub itself that'll help too, again it came with mine. The only part I had to seal was around where the connectors were mounted, as that'd just been screwed in.
Steve.
The last box I bought had already been sealed on the inside with some silicon sealant, and if you can source a rubber ring to seal the sub itself that'll help too, again it came with mine. The only part I had to seal was around where the connectors were mounted, as that'd just been screwed in.Steve.
06 March 2002, 08:07 PM
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Just a warning about silicon sealant. As it cures, it evolves acetic acid (IIRC). This can attack the surround of your subwoofer, so MAKE SURE YOUR SEALANT IS DRY BEFORE YOU INSTALL YOUR DRIVER!
06 March 2002, 11:10 PM
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Wow.
Good essay's guys, 10/10 for all That is some sound advice there. Thank-You
As for the actual sub enclosure, it is a sealed box, made from MDF (3/4 ") and carpeted. Inside I can see where it has been sealed around all the edges so I should be ok on that part. Looking at the Sub instructions again, it says to line the inside of the Sub enclosure with "Sound-absorbing material" to provide "Better sound quality". Now personally, I had never heard of this being done, hence the post, but as the manufactuer (Pioneer) recommend it I *may* try it. I think I'll have a listen to the quality with and without the sound-absorbing material to see which is better
My carpet is still attached to the back seats and I dont really want to start hacking at it with a knife! So I am stuck on getting an MDF floor constructed with no guide!
Does the carpet come away? I can't remember without looking! I think I'd prefer a solid floor and might take the MDF floor route
Thanks for all the posts peeps. V.helpful.
I'll be f-ing and blinding [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] saturday getting the ICE in my Scooby...
Will post the bloodbath results, hopefully with pictures
Cheers
James
Good essay's guys, 10/10 for all
That is some sound advice there. Thank-You As for the actual sub enclosure, it is a sealed box, made from MDF (3/4 ") and carpeted. Inside I can see where it has been sealed around all the edges so I should be ok on that part. Looking at the Sub instructions again, it says to line the inside of the Sub enclosure with "Sound-absorbing material" to provide "Better sound quality". Now personally, I had never heard of this being done, hence the post, but as the manufactuer (Pioneer) recommend it I *may* try it. I think I'll have a listen to the quality with and without the sound-absorbing material to see which is better
My carpet is still attached to the back seats
and I dont really want to start hacking at it with a knife! So I am stuck on getting an MDF floor constructed with no guide! Does the carpet come away? I can't remember without looking! I think I'd prefer a solid floor and might take the MDF floor route Thanks for all the posts peeps. V.helpful.
I'll be f-ing and blinding [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] saturday getting the ICE in my Scooby...
Will post the bloodbath results, hopefully with pictures
Cheers
James
07 March 2002, 10:06 AM
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James
Drop the seats, there's a couple of long plastic strips which retain the carpet. Just unscrew the screw and the carpet comes out. You would need to do this anyhow to use as a template for an Mdf floor. Just take your time and plan things a little and you will be fine.
Whip
Drop the seats, there's a couple of long plastic strips which retain the carpet. Just unscrew the screw and the carpet comes out. You would need to do this anyhow to use as a template for an Mdf floor. Just take your time and plan things a little and you will be fine.
Whip
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03 June 2002, 01:17 PM
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James
I'm in a similar situation myself m8. I have a kicker 10" sub in a wedge enclosure, the wedge is only a couple of degrees off being the same angle as the rear seats. I decided to make an MDF floor and mount it to that, partly for sound and a secure fit, and also as I want to keep the original boot 'floor' untouched.
This is the false floor that I made out. I used 12mm mdf but you may want to go one better and use 18mm - up to you. My reasoning was that this was solid enough to do the job and the 18mm would weigh half as much again. Add that to the weight of adecent sub enclosure and you're talking a fair bit of weight.
To do this I removed the carpet and simply traced round it then cut it. If I was to do a second version I would take more time at this stage to get an ultra-tight fit, but this one stays put as it is, especially with the sub on top. Notice the two cutouts at one side so you can get your finger underneath for easy removal, and the notch at the other side where I'm gonna feed the cables through (corresponds with the gap between the split rear seats). An even closer look will reveal the outline of where the sub will sit. This puts it right up against the back seats, facing the rear of the car, with space at the side to mount the amp to the floor. By fixing the sub (I will use wingnuts for quick removal) to both sides of the floor it will stop one side settling higher than the other. (If you've had the carpet out you'll notice that the boot floor is very uneven). At the rear, near the finger cutouts I am fixing a 3" x 12" section of mdf to the left hand side, which will rest on the spare wheel edges and in turn the right side will settle on the 3x12 piece. Next stage for me is to carpet it. I was thinking a nice tartan pattern should set it off.
And here's the sub, probably pretty similar to what you've got. All in the floor probably costs about 30 quid, and will look/sound better than strapping it in IMHO.
Whip
[Edited by whip - 3/6/2002 1:18:04 PM]
I'm in a similar situation myself m8. I have a kicker 10" sub in a wedge enclosure, the wedge is only a couple of degrees off being the same angle as the rear seats. I decided to make an MDF floor and mount it to that, partly for sound and a secure fit, and also as I want to keep the original boot 'floor'
untouched.This is the false floor that I made out. I used 12mm mdf but you may want to go one better and use 18mm - up to you. My reasoning was that this was solid enough to do the job and the 18mm would weigh half as much again. Add that to the weight of adecent sub enclosure and you're talking a fair bit of weight.
To do this I removed the carpet and simply traced round it then cut it. If I was to do a second version I would take more time at this stage to get an ultra-tight fit, but this one stays put as it is, especially with the sub on top. Notice the two cutouts at one side so you can get your finger underneath for easy removal, and the notch at the other side where I'm gonna feed the cables through (corresponds with the gap between the split rear seats). An even closer look will reveal the outline of where the sub will sit. This puts it right up against the back seats, facing the rear of the car, with space at the side to mount the amp to the floor. By fixing the sub (I will use wingnuts for quick removal) to both sides of the floor it will stop one side settling higher than the other. (If you've had the carpet out you'll notice that the boot floor is very uneven). At the rear, near the finger cutouts I am fixing a 3" x 12" section of mdf to the left hand side, which will rest on the spare wheel edges and in turn the right side will settle on the 3x12 piece. Next stage for me is to carpet it. I was thinking a nice tartan pattern should set it off.
And here's the sub, probably pretty similar to what you've got. All in the floor probably costs about 30 quid, and will look/sound better than strapping it in IMHO.
Whip
[Edited by whip - 3/6/2002 1:18:04 PM]
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