Mossman

Hopefully a simple question for once !!

I currently have a Kenwood CD head unit, Kenwood front component speakers and the original back ones.

I would really appreciate some advice on which speakers for the back and a four channel amp. That's it! Not budget, not ridiculous money, somewhere in the middle. Thanks !!

Jon.

Adam M

I have always disliked amps made by the major manufactures, alpine, sony, pioneer etc. with the exception of kenwwod whose amps are quite impressive.
For quality on a budget I would recommend mid range phoenix gold or orion. They give a v. smooth sound. my friends at audio images in Bradford (I feel like a bloody advert)have scanned the market in Americe for a great amp and have come up with a make called audio art. These offer exactly the
same power and sound quality (perhaps a little better in my opinion) as the phoenix gold but for half the price. The only drawback is that the Audio Images are the only importers so they have to be purchased from there. 01274 733633 yet again mention Adam with the impreza and they will help you out.

I can't possibly comment on rear speakers as.
1) I dislike them (see previous posts).

2) I still haven't collected my car and so don't know the exact size of the rear holes. They will probably make a good port for the sub though.

Mossman

Thanks for your help! Any other comments appreciated! I think I will go with Kenwood to keep the system the same.

Lee

Adam M,

a little harsh !

(I notice you live in westcliff..thats 20 seconds (via scoob) from me in rochford - have to pop down sometime!)

crossfire amps (get a good review in maxpower) deliver impressive vfm. As for "disliking" major manufacturers amps you have to be kidding right ? With such a large choice of speakers on the market and crossover settings etc the amp is just a tiny part of the end sound. Incidentally Ride-On/Stirling Ice (retailer near us) now steer clear of Kenny amps !

I have speakers in the rear with the crossover set so that treble gets cut-off..this helps push the stage forwards.

Mossman, at the end of the day unless you are competing or have incredibly sensitive ears you'll never know the difference between a kenny vs alpine vs etc etc. Why complicate it ?

Lee.
(Alpine everything apart from speakers/cabling! and it sounds ace)

Mossman

Ta Lee. You're right, I wouldn't notice the difference. I just want to improve the sound a little bit.

Thanks for the advice.

Jon.

robski

Lee,
your right that does create a good effect. Having limited sound from the rear "rounds the sound", and helps the fact that you are a lot closer to the drivers side speaker(s).
I know its not point of reference, but its better "real world" than all up front.

My pioneer allows you to do that from the head unit, as well as altering the phase of the subs, and all sorts of other bits.
Its fun to mess with these from the head unit as its a lot easier to hear the difference, than adjusting things and climbing back into the drivers seat.
For what its worth, my mate who installs ICE recommends Pioneer head units, and after listening to loads of his installs, I know why. He also fits Pro Plus amps, which for the money are good if you want an all round sound. If you want a serious sub driver, look at one of the really big legacys, my 4x250 pulled 75amps, with gains set to half, and at 2/3 volume. They will overheat and cut out if not well vented tho.

Looking back, I am guessing that you want a 4 channel for driving 4 full range speakers?
If so, look for something around 4x100, avoiding the cheap makes. Demo some in shops if you are uncertain, paying particular attention to the harshness of the top end, thats what you should be listening to for a 4 channel full range amp.

Robski

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I recently installed a Kenwood 746 in my brothers Mica, and was surprised on two counts. First the car can still move after all the ICE we've installed and secondly how good it sounded for a £130 amp!

Get a boy racer magazine, like Max Ar*e/Fast Sh*te! In the back you'll find ads for stereo shops. You'll be able to get the usual Alpine/Kenwood/Sony/Pioneer/etc 6.5" speakers for the rear shelf for between £30-60. they are normally last years models but who'd know the difference. the amp was bought from an advert in the back of Fast car. I think that since then it's even cheaper! (Again last years model!)

I personally prefer Alpine, as I have an Alpine head unit, autochanger, 2 4-channel amps, and Alpine subs. Although I did go for Kenwood component speakers up front and Pioneer for the rear shelf.

Hope this helps
Andy

Lee

Hmm. getting back to the original question !

What rating are the components you've put in the front ? You don't want to fit a mega amp and blow them to smithereens !

Remember also that advertised output ratings can all be interpreted differently.

E.g. my head unit 4x55W. Yeah right! thats max output with distortion. More like 4x15W RMS with no distortion.

My Alpine F405 4x40W amp came with a engineers test certificate..the amp actully produced 4x57W. This may be the difference between good "major manufacturers" and cheapo-amps.
This is a lot of audio power ! You don't realise this until you start choosing power cabling/fuses etc.

I have a pair of JBL T-595 ltd edition 6x9s on my rear shelf. MaxPower rated these as the best 6x9's ever and I have to agree. They cost me £175, were a bugger to fit etc. They will accept up to 150W RMS !

My advice..choose a set of 6x9s for the rear. Listen to some at a retailer. Then choose a quality (but smallish) amp to suit.
Some people even use the head unit for the rears and an amp for fronts.

There are a million + 1 combinations depending on what you want to spend.

Mossman

Blimey ! I didn't realise how complicated it all is ! Thanks very much for all your advice.

Cheers,

Jon.

Lee

I would agree with the 6x9's providing stonking amounts of bass !

But you are missing a point..budget !

I'll share my experiences of changing the components in stages..

Stage 1 - Replace head unit and add cd changer (£472) keep stock speakers and wiring.
Dead easy to fit (ISO connectors) - Cracking improvement. Could have easily lived with this.

Stage 2 - Replace speakers. (£395)
Crud. The head unit just doesnt have the oomph for decent speakers.

Stage 3 - Add amps and wiring. (£500ish)
Wow - made the speakers come to life. Could definitely live with the bass output from the 6x9s

Stage 4 - Add sub/box and amp (£430)
Adds that little bit extra !

The point is..spending £472 on stage1 was a smallish outlay with a cracking result. Spending a further £1400 made a difference but was it worth the extra dosh ?

Unless you do have money to burn I would go for a decent head unit (maybe change the speakers but choose efficient ones meant for a head unit!) and leave it at that.

The bass from the 6x9s is so impressive that I could have done without the sub/amp and saved £430. So before you cane 6x9s remember that those on a budget may benefit greatly, especially if they know they will never fit a sub.

Adam M

Which is exactly what I said.
Lee, you could not be more right. 6x9 are the best upgrade if you don't intend to go any further. If you do, they are the first thing you should ditch and sell as they let down the rest of the system when you do it properly You don't want full sound behind you and the bass they produce will only detract from the quality of the bass from the sub. I would rather put them in the front than the back, but that is complicated and not everyones choice.

Adam M

I apologise for harshness I was just giving my opinion.

1. The amp in an everday system is far more inmportant than any other component and you will certainly be able to tell the difference. I promise that.

2. The higher the amp power the better. As long as the power output is RMS the total harmonic distortion figure is low and the rating is over the entire frequency range, you will do no harm (unless using 8 watt nokia standard speakers.

A higher power amp on minimumgain will out perform a lower powered amp that is more strained but it also gives you an easier upgrade route which I am sure you will use. The only problem being the initial cost.

3. I stand by my condemnation of big company amps. You will find much better quality amps from companies that don't sell in huge bulk as they don't cut costs by ordering lower grade components in order to increase profit margins.

4. I admit that my preference is audiophile and would understand if you wanted speakers in the rear. Limiting their response and wiring them in mono is a big help and you will hear the difference, to the front end sound no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise.

6x9s are still a bad idea. These speakers exist for people who only want to make their systems louder but dont want a sub. The idea is that you get the cone area of about an eight inch sub but with no box. This will give bass without complicating the system and the convenient shape will fit on the rear shelf. If you are going to have the intelligence to limit the frequency range these emit, why bother spending the money on what has been designed as a full range speaker. You would be far better off by four or five inch mids (definitely don't have tweeters in the back).

Lee,

You are right about new Kenwood amps but the older ranges are far better. Personally I have never had any and stick to phoenix gold but these are not everybodies cup of tea or budget. I think they are worth every penny.

Definitely pop-in it would be cool to meet another enthusiast.

e-mail adammessulam@hotmail.com

Not a big fan of stirling. But not a big fan of ctva either. (except when they sell me a tv bloody cheap)