john banks

Even with a sub you will benefit from a speaker that goes a bit lower. If you have a filter on a sub set too high to compensate for inadequate low frequency extension of a main driver you will be able to localise the position of the sub.

Consider that the low end frequency response as quoted above is by convention a -3dB point. This means that at that point the speaker will already need double the power to make the same volume that it would at its most efficient point. I would be concerned with 5" speakers that you would have a frequency dip.

And 605CS go straight in a Scoob with the supplied adaptor ring. The job should take well under an hour and that is based on my own muppet DIY skills now I have done it a few times and know what to do. Can't think of how any speaker could be easier to fit than one which screws in out of the box!!

Since I fitted my 605CS a year ago on the recommendation of Jon from www.incarexpress.co.uk and I recommended them on here, probably well over a dozen people have fitted them, and I think all agree for the price they are incredibly musical and stand out as truly excellent components. They also won an award in InCars magazine which the 505CS didn't.

Fit the 605CS you will not regret it at this budget.

[Edited by john banks - 12/1/2001 12:32:14 PM]

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

I mounted my crossovers on the kick panels, less chance of them getting wet there ! This of course means u need 3 pieces of speaker wire per door. I used 7 meters of 16 guage cable from Ripspeed. Its a bit of a sod to pull through the door grommets though.

You will also need 4 large spade connectors and 4 small spade connectors to connect to the speakers. The corssover connectors are bare wire connections.

I mounted my tweeters on the triangle of plastic inside the door by the door mirror.

Let me know if u need any more help.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

You got it mate.

Halfords do cables with spades already on them, depends on the size of the store. Ours is a big new one with loads of ICE stuff and all of the Ripspeed stuff.

I bought my connectors from Halfords, they are gold ones.
Needed 2 packs (2 sets of big/small spades in each). They cost me about 3 quid a set I think. Just crimped them on.

The connector on the orignal speakers is a funny one, I cut off the plug and put a block connector on to join it to a new cable.
Would really recommend that you run new cables back to the head unit though, but I couldn't be bothered.

Good luck, drop me an email if I can help further.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

The 605's fit like a glove into the original mount, just take out the old speaker attach the metal spacer (included under the grills on the box) to the mount and the Infinitys fix straight onto this. Just make sure that your new cables don't catch on the window when it goes down.
Stick them firmy onto the back of the inside of the metal door panel.

Dynamat your doors as well, it makes all the difference. I bought a roll from Halfords which did both doors. Just cut it lengthways and stick it inside the door.

Sorted !

john banks

Sorry not to have seen you post first time or this. I have fitted 605CS in my Scooby and I only live a short distance from you. If you want I can help you fit them and I have some spare good quality speaker wire around that I can give you and a handy soldering iron with a big driveway. Email me if you want a hand.

Edited to say - I ran one continuous piece of good cable from my amp in the boot to the crossover in the door - screws into it. Then another piece to the woofer, and another piece to the tweeter - onto which I soldered the good wire direct to the terminals (have to be quick as wire is fine on other side and can melt it off the connector). I personally wouldn't bother wiring direct to the headunit as you'll have to butcher the ISO connector or get abulky adaptor. However, if you are going to shove 150WRMS through them like me then new wire is called for.

[Edited by john banks - 11/22/2001 5:21:50 PM]

Nikko2

Very useful info guys.

My 605cs arrived today. I will be fitting them tomorrow. I am going to stick them behind the vent for a stealth build finish. (It doesnt pay to advertise.)

I just Fitted some kenwood 6x9s in the rear today. Had to take the seat out but followed Chiarks instructions and it went well.

Great improvement in sound, Can't believe how poor quality the standard subaru stuff is.

nuclear_pond

All good stuff.

Mine arrived yesterday. Whats the roll of sticky foam for? also, how have you guys fixed the angle mount to the triangles behind the mirrors - some sort of bolts (in the bag of bits witht he speakers)?

Dynomat - Do you stick it to the door trim insides, or the door chassis?

Sorry to be a pain.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Stuck my Dynamat round the speaker mount and also inside the door on the inside of the outer skin.

Tweeters attached to the 'triangle' with the screws provided and a little squirt from the hot gluegun, just to make sure. (Pic to follow shortly !)

Just make sure you angle them properly so they don't hit the corner of the dash when you close the door !!

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Nikko,

Which Kenwood 6x9's did u fit ? Did they slot in nicely ?

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Check the thread for gratuitous tweeter shots !

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=55642

Okay . . . . how do u get the hyperlink to work ?!

Edited by Chiark - Fixed for you squire... (use {url} and {/url} around yer URL changing the {} to [] )

(Thanks 2 Chiark !)

[Edited by DJ Dunk - 11/23/2001 11:53:39 AM]

Nikko2

Ill check what the Kenwoods are tommorrow. they were £80 a year ago.KFC6XXX.

I attached my tweeters behind the grill and stuck then to the inside of the door with a sticky pad although this maybe revised.

Had a bugger of an afternoon as the pasenger electric window stuck in the down posn. Turned out I had bent a prong on the Connector block. Doh!

They sound Fappintastic

nuclear_pond

They're In ! (Just).

Man did it take longer than I though. Stupid screw inside window controls would not budge. At one pont I was ready to drill it out, but couldnt get the drill in there! Local Garage got it out in the end

The main problem I'm left with is the crossover location. I coulnt be bothered to pass the wires through to the footwell, so was looking to place it in the door. The only place I could find was on the back of the door trim, theres a space behind the door bin. However, its only taped on at the mo with electrical tape!

I'm gonna switch to velcro pads I think, cos they are very sticky and will mean I can detach them forem the doors for access. What has everyone else done?

Finaly, there is a -3db connection on the crossover, is anyone using this?

Ta muchly

john banks

There is a 1" bar that goes diagonally up the door with an area just tight enough to squeeze in the crossover. I use the 0dB setting. -3dB shuts up the tweeter a bit. Just turn up the bass to compensate

nuclear_pond

There are 4 spades for different connection possitions. If you look closley there is a + and a - next to each pair. Wire the + out of the crossover to the + on the speaker, and the - to the -. The other connectors can be left alone.

I used a rachet crimper and blue crimps, but even they were too big, and I had to give em a squeeze with the pliers once they were on. Really I should have soldered them on, or used smaller crimps, but I had no soler iron, or smaller crimps

My spelling is terrible

[Edited by nuclear_pond - 11/26/2001 6:41:49 PM]

Dougster

Do the 605cs definetly fit straight into existing mounts that easy. I have a MY98 and local hifi dealer has fitted 505cs. Need solid information before I can go back and ask for the manager!!!!

john banks

They do with the supplied adaptor ring into MY99/00, so unless MY98 is different which I don't think so....

Dougster

Cheers John. Culprits were Drivers in Glasgow just in case anyone else is thinking about upgrade. Fit and finish of 505s plus tweeters an excellent job. Now need to Dynomat doors - anyone want to give me a hand? Also looking for hints on more bass without going OTT.

john banks

I helped Scoobydoc with his Dynamatting after he had some bits put in by Drivers. I'm a bit busy to get over to Glasgow, but if you wanted to come over to Fife I would help you dynamat it.

For more bass, get 605CS! Sorry, but the cone surface area is much bigger. Also get a sub and amp the lot. Even with a sub, I suspect the 5" speakers will not go low enough to meet the top end of where you want the sub filtered off - ie. 80Hz. Any higher and everyone will say "What's that dirty great sub in your boot" before you even open it rather than "Oh I thought all of it was coming from your front doors". If I run the 605CS much lower than 80Hz they start to struggle and I have to turn down the volume when they are amped hard, so I think 505CS would struggle. Don't be fobbed off - 605CS are what they should have fitted. As even 1995 cars take this size, I am sure yours does.

Nikko2

Dougster 605cs definitely fit in a MY98 as I did this last Friday.

Dougster

John - went back to Drivers today and he agreed that 605s would fit in but still recommended 505s, saying they were a better speaker capable of handling exactly same as larger 605s. He also said that he sells 505s at a 10 to 1 ratio over 605s.
Also looked at a Macaudio combined sub/amp unit, approx £200.
You seem more clued up than most so your views greatly appreciated - hope I'm not getting strung a line from Drivers because they are pretty well respected and as I said fit of components faultless (apart from size????!!!!)

john banks

My opinion and that shared by most others on uk.rec.audio.car is that you should fit a larger speaker in preference to a smaller one if they are of the same quality. The 505CS I have not actually heard, but I suspect they can't be bothered changing them. Consider the cone area is related to the square of the diameter - so you are getting around 50% more cone area with a 6.5" cf 5.25". The end result is that you get better low frequency response.

Maybe Drivers are respected, but that doesn't stop me thinking they are talking a complete load of **** and I'm not afraid to say so. Best be honest. I don't think I'm wrong. And I think Chiark or someone more clever has agreed with similar in the past.

http://www.incarexpress.co.uk/focus.php3?partno=505cs
http://www.incarexpress.co.uk/focus.php3?partno=605cs

Compare the 72Hz vs 54Hz claimed frequency response. That means the 605cs will be putting out the same volume at 54Hz that the 505cs would put out at 72Hz. 18Hz is not inconsiderable and not surprising. If Drivers can give you a good reason why they want you to have a speaker with worse low frequency extension I would be delighted to hear it....

Also consider that you have only 75WRMS power handling compared with 90WRMS and the story only gets worse.

Since we don't have frequency response curves to hand I can't be sure, but you would expect with the lower power handling (if you use it all with an amp) that you could easily be 2 or 3dB down in the low bits. That's quite significant and you would definitely notice.

They are trying to sell you a 1.4 litre when you want the 2.0 litre!

[Edited by john banks - 11/30/2001 8:57:34 PM]

Dougster

John - contacted Drivers with new information and they agreed to exchange speakers immediately, however the manager again expressed that he felt 505s were a better musical speaker with a range that will accomodate my system.
Considering I am planning to add a sub and amp (which they knew about) he advised me to stick with what I have and that they would have not sold me 505s, and gone to the trouble of a more difficult install if they did not think it the best option.

Dougster

Thanks to all who have helped in this situation, especially John.
I now have 605s fitted using adapter ring as suggested (Drivers didn't know you could) Sounds far better.
Now for some bass!!
I have managed to get a hold of a Pioneer sub/amp, brand new for a knock down (not knock off!) price. I'll post how it sounds soon as it's fitted.

john banks

Hope they are eating their words now.

DT

I've just fitted them too. trouble is, it now shows up the limitations of the headunit........

They should warn you before you register, that Scoobynet will hurt your pockets, and you will continute to spend on all areas of your car in search of the holy grail.