Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Have a MY99 UK and have the following kit, either kicking around, or installed in the car. Anyone have any ideas for a way forward??

Kit in car:
-------------------
Kenwood Mini-Disk MASK Headunit (3*4v RCA)
Kenwood 10 disc changer
Kenwood 4-channel (846 - I think)
Kenwood 8" 3-way speakers on the rear shelf
Cheap Kenwood speakers in front doors

In garage (somewhere!!)
-------------------
1.5 farad capacitor
Boston Acoutics Rally Component 5.25"
Pioneer 2-way 6.5" (about £175 18months ago!)

Couple of questions:

1) Do I keep what's already in the car and just add a sub??

2) Do I remove the front Kenwoods and use the Bostons???

3) Do I removed the rear Kenwoods, and carpet the shelf, and use that to port the sub?? Thereby only needing to bridge channels 3 & 4 for the sub.

4) Musical taste varies from Hip Hop, Drum & Bass, Garage, Indie and general Radio 1!!! Which sub should I be looking at??? 10"?? 12"??? Only looking at spending £200-250, but will stretch to more if needed!!!

5) Should I run Boston's (fr) 8" Kenwood's (rear) and a sub?? Should I be looking at a new 5 channel amp, or a good quality 3/4 channel???

Decisions, decisions!!! I don't want to spend more than £400-500 (although I normally end up spending more than my budget!!!) in total getting it together!!!

Thanks
Andy

ScoobyDoo555

Hi Andy,
Answers to yoru questions :-

1. Personally ,I'd just put a Sub in... I've been SO impressed with mine - not stupid amounts of bass etc (Puffa jacket at home!)

2. Never heard the Bostons, so can't really comment, but if they were cheap, then yeh, change em....

3. Hmm. Depends on what the Sub is, and how important your bootspace, passengers is/are...
You could put in a free-air sub, mount it on the back of the seat, therefore you'd have to port it somehow....
Personally, I'm not a big fan of this (besides, I've got a 5dr!)
I'd give you the technical BS on the whys and wherefores, but I can't be bothered, purely coz others in this forum have researched this more than I have.....
I've got my sub installed in the sparewheel space, not accurately setup at all, in fact, I've been told it's TOTALLY wrong, sounds good to me (and I'm a professional sound engineer & lecturer)

4. I've got a 12" (ooer!!) - good for most applications. 10" I think makes the sound 'punchier' - due to the smaller driver size.

5. Depends on the power you're after. I've got a JBL 2ch (bridged) just running the Sub. I've then got another JBL 4ch driving the car speakers......

I'd steer well clear of the Cap - my friend's putting one in his Saab Turbo (he's running 2x 15" Eminence subs in a ported 'coffin', 4x 6x9s, 6" components in the front - a few amps, can't remember how many.) He's had to buy docking-rope thickness power cable, all because he's eating batteries every 6 months..... serves hime right! All the weight certainly is improving his handling :-)))

Hope this helps in some way - but must add, this is just my opinion :-)

Dan

john banks

Those 8" Kenwoods sound rather nice - what do you think of the bass response from them - presumably they would take absolutely shed loads of power - would seem a shame to rip them out. If you put a really meaty amp on them I'm sure you could get them giving pretty awesome bass response. I suppose it would be a free air configuration. My sub is actually only a single 8" in a bandpass box and it is unbelievably loud even with only 150WRMS and has adequate bass extension - ask ScoobyDoc! I bet the bandpass box is giving the really high SPL though and not the weedy driver. I wonder what your 8" drivers would sound like with your exisiting 4 channel amp bridged to 2 channels and with a low pass filter (to avoid dragging staging backwards) with the Bostons in the front with a (new) amp? Might save your boot space.

For your music tastes though, I suppose a sub may be in order. If you were to go for a sub - 12" would sound about right for that sort of music? 15" may be a bit excessive and not very controlled?

From my experiments with 6.5" 2ways and then components, I would go for the comps even though they're that bit smaller.

When I was looking, most of the 5 channel amps have pretty weedy 5th channels, and I now run 6 channels bridged to 3 - Fronts and sub with the rears off headunit. The front components came alive when the Kenwood 848 (similar to your 846 I think with a LITTLE extra juice?) was bridged to 2 channel mode.

So in summary - how about 1. no sub, Bostons in front new amp (beefy), 846 LPF for 8" rears or 2. 2x10" or 1x12" (2ch bridged) + Bostons (4ch bridged) + 8" rear off headunit [what a waste though!].

Just some ideas. Let us know how you get on!

John

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ScoobyDoo555:
<B>2. Never heard the Bostons, so can't really comment, but if they were cheap, then yeh, change em....[/quote]

Cheap I wish, about 2 years ago they cost £250-260!!!

I had 6.5" Kenwood Components Dual-Mags in the last car with Dynamatted doors, but yet the 5.25" Bostons performed better in an undynamatted car!!! I think I should keep them!!!

Thanks for the advice guys, and I've had a couple of guys at work with different ideas as well!!!!

Why can't this be easy????

Andy

Luke

Andy
Iv'e Fitted same "Bostons "in a quattro i used to have. I was using a "Genesis" amp. I was VERY impressed with them .Nearly as good as "FOCALS". The treble units in the "BOSTONS" are very smooth and this to me is so important for long term listening.
KEEP them if not I would be interested !!

chiark

Wotcha Andy

Put the bostons in the front, for definite. I'd be tempted to put the 8" in the rear, and disconnect the tweeters from them.

Sub-wise, you may want to investigate making a box for those 8 inchers, as that may give you what you want...

For your type of music, which is along the same lines as mine, I'd consider a 10" sub. It won't plumb the lowest depths, but the punch from these is damn good. I'm running 2 JL Audio 10W6 at the moment in a sealed box.

So, your lottery numbers really *have* come up then

Nick.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I use to have a fairly hefty install, and I miss it!!!

Use to run:

Kenwood MD MASK head unit
Kenwood 6 disk changer under the passenger seat

Kenwood 6.5" component Dual Mags in the front doors
Pioneer 6.5" 3-way jobbies on the rear shelf
Run by an Alpine 4-Channel F405

Subs were 2 * 10" Alpine ZR, in two sealed boxes
Run by another Alpine 4-Channal F405

A 1.5 Farad capacitor feeding both amps
Fully Dynamatted front doors, and partial cover in the boot. Raised floor to allow a full size alloy, and give a good base to mount the sub boxes.

When I bought the new car, it already had:

Kenwood MASK cassette head unit
Kenwood 10 disk changer
Kenwood 4 channel amp
Kenwood 6.5" in the doors
Kenwood 8" on the rear shelf

I ended up selling most of my old kit to a mate. Helped him install it over the weekend, and I'm jealous, so I need to have a re-think on mine!!!

I bought the Bostons for my Citreon ZX!!!! I'm surprised I never boethered to put them in either of the Subarus!!! I guess I was hoping for a lottery win, and use something else!!!

Bostons are staying, sorry Luke!!!

I'll have some more thoughts, and ask you guys when I have a system in mine!!!!

Cheers
Andy

ScoobyDoo555

Andy, sorry M8,

Just looked at my reply, when I said "replace 'em", I WAS referring to the Kenwoods, NOT thr Bostons :-)))

Soz,


Dan

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Cheers Dan!!!

Nice recovery, and nearly no one noticed!!!

Andy

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Ok so it looks like I'll probably have the following:

Kenwood MD headunit
Kenwood 10 disk changer

Boston Acoustic Rally 5.1 - Front doors
Kenwood 8" 3 ways - Rear shelf

Question is:

1) Should I keep my four channel Kenwood amplifier, and fit a sub amp?? Or change it for a 5/6 channel amplifier?? If so, which amplifer shouwl I get???

2) I had two 10" subwoofers before, will I notice much difference, if I just get a single 12"?? (8" will cope with the mid-bass range)

What would compliement the Boston's best?? Infinity? JL Audio?? Etc?

3) For the 8" I want them to have both a low and high pass filter. How do I do this???

I don't want it going much higher than 100hz, and not much lower than say 60hz.

Thanks
Andy

chiark

I run a 4 channel for main speakers and 2 channels for subs. The rationale is that if I want more subs, I can add more amps... I also have a fairly powerful sub amp.

The installation ease of a 5 channel appeals, but the flexibility of 2 amps won me over.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I think that the power/earth cable is only 8 gauge (about 1cm diameter). I wanted to change it 4 gauge anyway, but is it worth it??

ScoobyDoo555

Regards your filtering quandary, most 'decent' amps have some v.good filters built in.......

Subs..... depends how much space you want to lose in the boot :-)
Basically, the larger the cone, the 'better' the frequency response (I'm sure you know that already...) therefore, personally, i went for a 12" (space etc.....)

Dan :-)

chiark

Hmm, not sure I agree with you on the "better" frequency response with a larger driver.

More air is shifted for the same excursion, but you've got to control cone break-up, inertia and all sorts of things.

10 inches suits me. And my wife.

Scooby Doc

Andy

IMHO!

Look after the front end of the car ie put in the bostons and give them a decent amp to give them some oomph.

You can do what you like with the rear but it is a waste of time and you would be better selling the kit.

Your decision about a sub comes down to how practical you wish to be.

I have very little boot space which is fine at the mo and I am sure you have this very t shirt.

What we need is somebody to do a compact sub install with say 8" suspended below the rear shelf or did somebody suggest some focal subs - 6/7" or smt.

As for amps. I am now an ebay veteran as is our leader, Chiark. Try

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Toying with the idea of a sub box that fits in the right hand side of the boot. I know Sub Worx don't make them anymore, but I'm checking with my usual box maker!!!

A cheap-ish two channel Kenwood, and bridge it for a sub.

The Sub I like the look of is the Infinity Perfect 12. Anybody heard the perfect 10/12?? Any comments??

Boot space is not an issue, as along as I can still fold down the rear seats!!

Dan, I know most amps have either a high pass or low pass filter, but very few allow you to use both!!! Would I be best using the amps low pass filter and using passive filters to cut low end bass; or use the amps high pass filter, and cutting the upper end of the frequencies with a passive filter??

Thanks
Andy

chiark

For filtration on sub amps, you're spot on. If you can high pass at 20Hz and low pass up to 100Hz, that's about all you want.

My 20Hz cut comes from a bass cube, and low pass is on the amp, and also on the head unit.

Your head unit may be able to low pass filter, in which case you can use the sub filter as high pass if it can be set low enough.

Or get hold of a cheap processor. I bought an Audiocontrol 4XS for 50 quid second hand, and my Bass cube cost the same. Both boxed, too.

Nick.

kryten

Andy, Auto Acoustics do a pre-made Stelthbox box to fit in the corner of the boot - cost is £149.

No good for me as my JL 12 needs a bit more space than the 1.05cu/ft (30l) that it provides, though from the picutre they sent me, it does look quite good.

ScoobyDoc, if you want a pair of 8" speakers to go in the rear shelf, try to find some secondhand JL 8IB4s - often used as a door sub up front!

Focal do a small 5" sub, it needs a box, though only 3 litres which is tiny.

The downside is that it has so much less cone area than a 10/12" sub - while this won't affect how low it goes (contrary to common belief), it does affect the volume so you'd probably need a pair at least!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Nick,

Doh!!!!!! I can set a filter on the head unit as well, so between that and the amp, I should be fine!!!! Thanks for pointing that out, before I spent too much money!!!

Cheers
Andy

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kryten:
<B>Andy, Auto Acoustics do a pre-made Stelthbox box to fit in the corner of the boot - cost is £149.

No good for me as my JL 12 needs a bit more space than the 1.05cu/ft (30l) that it provides, though from the picutre they sent me, it does look quite good.[/quote]

Funny you should mention Auto Acoustics. They've made several boxes for me in the past, and they were the people I was going to go to!!

Could you email me the piccie?? andrew.tang@logical.com

Thanks
Andy

iain atkins

Andy

I can vouch for the Perfect 10's, i've got two and they're mind blowing (literally). I'm using a pheonix gold 2 channel to drive them, if the amp is turned right up the bass nearly shakes your head off!! The amp is turned to about quarter power and still sounds the dogs. Infinity components up front driven by a sony 4 channel (bridged to 2 channel), line driver and no speakers in the rear shelf (to vent the bass better).

Go for the perfects m8 they only need 0.6cuft (17 litres) per sub you can't go wrong.

Cheers


Iain

Scooby Doc

Iain

I'll vouch for a pair of Perfect 10's.

Whatya gonna do Andy about your Sub?

Martin

Scooby Doc

Andy

And the power cable. It probably is worth changing it if you anticipate running a couple of amps.

Try

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scooby Doc:
<B>Whatya gonna do Andy about your Sub?[/quote]

Due to boot space, and needing to be able to fold down the seats, I think the Perfect 12 is the solution for me. Shame I sold my Alpine Subs, oh well, live and learn!!!

Thanks for the Link martin, will spend some time reading it!!

Cheers
Andy

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

The Infinity Perfect 12 is looking better and better. In sealed conditions, it requires 1 cu.ft. So Perfect (excuse the pun) for the Auto Acoustics box!!!

ScoobyDoo555

Chiark,

Re: frequency response.

I might have usd the wrong terminology....

I was referring to the fact that the bigger the driver, the lower the frequency it can reproduce....i.e tweeters can't reproduce LF signal (desperately trying not to sound patronising &lt;grin&gt; :-))))


That's all.... :-)

Dan

ScoobyDoo555

Re: the amps LPF & HPF. As I haven't spent a fortune on my ICE install, I didn't go for an amp with both. (on the basis that 'when' the car gets nicked, not too much ICE-value lost..)

Surely there must be Scoob owners who've put in expensive amp that do both.....


DAn