evo5uk

Cannot decide whether to go for PPP. Can someone please help me decide whether to spend my hard earned £1600.

mattski2

yeh and yes ! (IMHO that is)

john banks

I had one on my MY00 and sold it to switch to Ecutek - it was simply too tame on the performance. I had no end of boost control problems which the fitting dealer never managed to sort out so I ended up sorting it myself. When sorted (and many are not) it goes OK, but IMHO not £1500-1800 worth of performance modification. The one good point about the PPP is that you keep your warranty, this to me is the only reason to buy it. If I did not have a MY99/00 and needed an ECU my choice would be a Link ECU from www.brdevelopments.com

CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Of course I am biased since I map using Ecutek products commercially.

[Edited by john banks - 5/23/2002 11:32:52 PM]

LG John

Depends what kind of performace your after. Whilst the PPP makes the scooby faster it makes the acceleration far less aggressive so it actually feel slower IMHO. I've been saving for ages to buy a scooby and those plans were nearly written off when I drove my first PPP'd one, I was big time disappointed. That said, if your wanting a smoother more driveable car it could be your thing - either way I think it's mighty expensive though

mutant_matt

SaxoBoy, ( ), lets not go there again.....

Yes the PPP is quite good and if your warranty is important then is the only option. However, I would instead recommend the EcuTek Tek2 ECU which is about £600 and will give you better gains. You can then also add a decat exhaust and it will be better still (and because you can't tell this has been done, your warranty should be ok). Tek2 + exhaust will still be cheaper than a PPP too

Matt

LG John

agreed Matt, that thread is still to fresh. Hmmmmm, maybe we should revive my old VTS thread

mattski2

lets not ...

Sideways

I've got a PPP on my RB5 and its the same speed as Babbers MY00 with a Dawes. IMHO its not worth the money but if you've got one fitted its a bonus. Mine seems to have more torque than Babbers but straight line speed no difference. Get a Tek 2 / 3 !!!!!

Regards Jay

LG John

£1600 or £35 with some careful setting up..........that's a difficult one

stevenuk300

What about for MY01 UK300. The TEK 2 is not available on MY01, so is there anything better than the PPP for the same amount of money?

john banks

Ecutek are working on the MY01 over the summer.

The MY01 PPP is a fuel cut lifter - build your own simplified but equally effective and safe version for £5 if you can solder or buy an HKS FCD for under £100 and adjust the size of the brass restrictor. No warranty - this is what you are really paying for with the PPP.

ukhuskynox

John thats interesting !!!
Should I still be able to "hit" the fuel cut ?

andy - UK300 + PPP

john banks

Yes you still have a fuel cut with the PPP - the manifold pressure sensor signal is scaled according to RPM by the PPP. Because it is scaled it reads out to (approximately) standard boost to the select monitor and the ECU when it is actually running more boost. This seems a poor method for dealers to do for diagnostics - they do not have the true boost value the ECU is running - it is effectively a piggyback signal modifier like the Unichip except the Unichip does fuelling and timing rather than MAP sensor.

I *suspect* Prodrive have scaled the MAP by RPM so that they can fatten up the midrange more than the top end - this is admirable for safety, good for torque, not quite so good for peak power.

Prodrive say that the Denso ECU knock correction is so good they did not need to adjust the timing, and that they leave the fuelling just as rich for cooling and safety. However it is left mega rich. Even taking small amounts out can lead to the same power at lower boost or more power at the same boost, and little change in the exhaust gas temperatures at least on the old EJ20 (MY99/00).

The HKS FCD or the circuit I showed also scale the MAP sensor and allow you to run more boost but still have a fuel cut in place - essential for safety IMHO.

[Edited by john banks - 5/24/2002 2:44:07 PM]

Adam M

no

ukhuskynox

Thanks for the info John, wish I had known this before i'd bought the car & the PPP DOH

oh well at least it is covered by the warranty !

ScoobyJawa

PPP no - TEK 2 yes - dawes (only if you haven't got the reddies for TEK2)

Cheers
Neil

scoobypig

Have a go in someones car with ppp then decide.
Mine is a hell of a lot faster, although the figures don't support this it seems much quicker than the numerous classic shape turbos i've driven.
However, I have also driven one which was very disappointing. They must be set up right.
Trouble is after a month you will want a bit more....

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

For what you get its a pretty good deal, exhaust, intercooler piping and ecu, its safe and it does improve your car no end enjoy's mine as much now as i did when i had it done (except i added a down pipe ) so i get the same exhaust note all the way from start to red line now
As for the performance, ive kept up with cars that have more power and without too many problems so if your car has a warranty then yes go for it, its a no messing around package but if your like John who likes to play with his car (unfortunately im not that mechanically minded so i go for the safer option) then go the tek1-2 route or even the link route.

Tony

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Question, why do all PPP owners end up getting a de cat DP?

Answer, because the PPP is pants.

Try before you buy and you'll know what I'm talking about.

F

SCOSaltire

no actually

i wanted to go decat to get pops and bangs

initially - after being in a dawes equiped car i thought.. wow.. i need this...
having been a few times more in cars with dawes... i prefer my car... my99 PPP

mbc

a simple yes it is m8

john banks

"its a no messing around package but if your like John who likes to play with his car"

Do you know why I started playing? Because PPP boost control was all over the place, even before I fitted a downpipe. Sadly in a lot of people's experience it is not a no messing package. For me it ended up a very expensive fuel cut lifter with a few degrees of extra ignition advnance and a smidgeon less fuel. The duty cycles in the maximum duty cycle table are far too high even with no other modifications for the typical midrange boost target of 15.7 PSI. This results in unpredictable overboost peaks, and in cold weather with a downpipe, oscillation problems on many cars. A more stable way of setting up the boost is to adjust the duty cycles to just make the boost you require in cold conditions. Then you don't always get target boost in lower gears or hotter temperatures, but at least it doesn't peak wildly. The PPP also runs much more knock correction than I would like to see in adverse conditions - they have been a bit enthusiastic with the ignition advance even for Scottish weather at standard PPP boost in the 4500 to 5500 RPM range.

[Edited by john banks - 27/05/2002 13:58:05]

SoreHead

I've spoken to the guys in Performance Subaru and they strongly recommended going with the PPP as it is extremely well engineered and a good starting point for modding. They sell their own solutions aswell as other aftermarket kit that's a bit cheaper so I would have expected them to be pushing their own stuff first.

I test drove a PPP car along side my own std car and there is definitely a difference. The fact that it means an intact warrantee is an extra bonus. As for whether or not it's safe I think isn't in question. There's no doubt in my mind that Subaru aren't stupid and they're not going to endorse a mod that isn't safe or they'd end up paying out in buckets full under warrantee.

I've played around myself on other cars from mild mods to serious stuff and found that the professionals definitely do it better. The only thing putting me off the PPP (and I've just ordered it anyway) is the naff huge tailpipe that looks a bit MaxPower.

I'll have it fitted and enjoy it until my warrantee is done and then start to look at more mods. By then there'll be more, decent kit out there to look at. I loik at the big players and see what they have out before I go looking at anything. Right now HKS have bugger all which means one of two things. It's not worth doing (and I think the numbers of WRX's sold will prove that's not the case) or that it's more complicated and needs more development. I'll go with the second one and not risk my engine on a mod that was rushed through development.

Just my humble opinion.

john banks

I'm not saying it is unsafe, just technically it is a little basic for the price. On the new car it is a MAP sensor adjustment - so the incorrect value is reported to the ECU to trick it into allowing more boost. On the old car the mapping is rudimentary - they have mainly adjusted column headings on the maps to shift things up a notch - so at one load point it is using the original mapping intended for a slightly lower load point, but it is a bit crude when they could alter a 16x16 map exactly how they want it, and the knock correction is not smooth - there are suspect areas of the map that poke out at you - why not correct them properly? Warranty is the only reason I can see - a big reason for many.

SoreHead

Mapping column heads? peak knock boost sensor overloaded spiked coffee???
My head hurts

I just want to go faster

john banks

Of course you do, but I was giving reasons why I disagree with the assertion that it is extremely well engineered and a good base for further mods rather than just saying it is not I prefer to debate the reasons rather than just tell you something someone else told me.

[Edited by john banks - 28/05/2002 12:28:08]

SoreHead

I understand completely. I've had a coffee and a tylanol so I'm better again

I'm going to go with the PPP for the sake of my warrantee and I'll work from there once the warrantee is up.

Uzi Lover

...try a couple of e's instead then it will all become much clearer!