wrx 4 pot vs sti brembo
15 June 2011, 01:13 AM
#2
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15 June 2011, 11:05 AM
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If you have stock WRX wheels, than you will need 10mm spacers (someone says 5mm is enough, but I don't think so as I was trying to do that).
However, front caliper fits perfectly without modifications. On the rears, there is a difference between STi and WRX handbrake shoe. STi disc has 190mm inner diameter where hanbrake shoe seats, but WRX discs have 170mm. So, if you fit directly STi rotors on without modifications, your hanbrake won't work. You can make 20mm thick sleeve to tightly fits into inner side of STi discs or get DBA STi discs which are made especially to fit WRX, but they are not really cheap.
And second modification you would need to do, is to remove rear disc's shield, as it is too small to embrace bigger STi discs.
However, front caliper fits perfectly without modifications. On the rears, there is a difference between STi and WRX handbrake shoe. STi disc has 190mm inner diameter where hanbrake shoe seats, but WRX discs have 170mm. So, if you fit directly STi rotors on without modifications, your hanbrake won't work. You can make 20mm thick sleeve to tightly fits into inner side of STi discs or get DBA STi discs which are made especially to fit WRX, but they are not really cheap.
And second modification you would need to do, is to remove rear disc's shield, as it is too small to embrace bigger STi discs.
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15 June 2011, 11:56 AM
#8
Gold Brembos won't clear WRX alloys and most 17" other wheels - sounds like you've been lucky.
However certain versions of Brembo brakes will clear the WRX alloys - I believe the Prodrive Alcons also will and there are some smaller Brembo versions out there too - I think they're silver.
For the money though I just don't think any of them are worth it second hand - which is why I ended up buying K-Sports - yes they're more money, but - at least that way you know what you're getting is new and will definitely work well without having to be refurbed first.
By the time you factor in the cost of new discs and pads, the K-Sports looked like a much better deal to me.
Worth a thought mate
Last edited by MrNoisy; 15 June 2011 at 11:57 AM.
15 June 2011, 04:47 PM
#12
What you don't say are which ones you have.
Gold Brembos won't clear WRX alloys and most 17" other wheels - sounds like you've been lucky.
However certain versions of Brembo brakes will clear the WRX alloys - I believe the Prodrive Alcons also will and there are some smaller Brembo versions out there too - I think they're silver.
For the money though I just don't think any of them are worth it second hand - which is why I ended up buying K-Sports - yes they're more money, but - at least that way you know what you're getting is new and will definitely work well without having to be refurbed first.
By the time you factor in the cost of new discs and pads, the K-Sports looked like a much better deal to me.
Worth a thought mate
Gold Brembos won't clear WRX alloys and most 17" other wheels - sounds like you've been lucky.
However certain versions of Brembo brakes will clear the WRX alloys - I believe the Prodrive Alcons also will and there are some smaller Brembo versions out there too - I think they're silver.
For the money though I just don't think any of them are worth it second hand - which is why I ended up buying K-Sports - yes they're more money, but - at least that way you know what you're getting is new and will definitely work well without having to be refurbed first.
By the time you factor in the cost of new discs and pads, the K-Sports looked like a much better deal to me.
Worth a thought mate
Refurb by Ian at Godspeed: £300. Complete strip: All new seals, pistons and sprayed Red. New bleed Nipples: Helicoil etc
So for £750 + new goodridge lines and ferrodo 5.1 better than new at £800 all in.
15 June 2011, 05:59 PM
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15 June 2011, 07:53 PM
#14
Genuine bloke, full of help for others, not just selling his product
17 June 2011, 11:51 AM
#17
Standard STi Brembo:£450 with Ferrodo ds2500 padds and grooved discs.
Refurb by Ian at Godspeed: £300. Complete strip: All new seals, pistons and sprayed Red. New bleed Nipples: Helicoil etc
So for £750 + new goodridge lines and ferrodo 5.1 better than new at £800 all in.
Refurb by Ian at Godspeed: £300. Complete strip: All new seals, pistons and sprayed Red. New bleed Nipples: Helicoil etc
So for £750 + new goodridge lines and ferrodo 5.1 better than new at £800 all in.
£699 (K-Sport 330mm kit, fits under 17" and 18" wheels, including 8 pot calipers, 2 piece discs and braided lines), £122.36 (Blue Stuff NDX Front Pads) £20.00 (P&P) and Motul fluid £13.63
£854.99
all brand new not recon...Plus K-Sports run 2 piece discs, not one piece like the ones you mention.
As good as Ian's work is (and I know - I've run two sets of his discs myself), there's no way would I spend that much on one piece discs and Brembo calipers mate.
You also don't say if the discs and pads you mentioned in the £450 were new or not.
New Vs Recon for the sake of £50 I'd go new every time as far as brakes are concerned - it should be a no brainer.
Just IMHO.
Last edited by MrNoisy; 17 June 2011 at 11:52 AM.
17 June 2011, 06:27 PM
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Lol, STi's with Gold Brembo's were fitted with 17" wheels as standard, surely proof that they fit under 17" wheels? Agreed not every 17" wheel, but same goes for any brake calipers.
Bugeye Scoob, interesting that you would favour a cheap Chinese made knock off copy braking system, over arguably the most well known quality branded brake company product.
I am pretty sure a recon Brembo set will outlast the Chinese clone by many thousands of miles.
Bugeye Scoob, interesting that you would favour a cheap Chinese made knock off copy braking system, over arguably the most well known quality branded brake company product.
I am pretty sure a recon Brembo set will outlast the Chinese clone by many thousands of miles.
20 June 2011, 11:26 AM
#20
Lol, STi's with Gold Brembo's were fitted with 17" wheels as standard, surely proof that they fit under 17" wheels? Agreed not every 17" wheel, but same goes for any brake calipers.
Bugeye Scoob, interesting that you would favour a cheap Chinese made knock off copy braking system, over arguably the most well known quality branded brake company product.
I am pretty sure a recon Brembo set will outlast the Chinese clone by many thousands of miles.
Bugeye Scoob, interesting that you would favour a cheap Chinese made knock off copy braking system, over arguably the most well known quality branded brake company product.
I am pretty sure a recon Brembo set will outlast the Chinese clone by many thousands of miles.
1. The STI wheels are a different size to the WRX wheels (yes they're 17's but the design of the wheel is different). That's why they clear Brembos. The WRX silver / gunmetal ones don't.
End of.
No arguments - that's a fact.
They're one of the only sets of 17" wheels that will clear Brembos (oh and yours of course
).2. Favouring a "cheap Chinese made knock off copy braking system" - ah yes, that's why Dynamix, the time attack winner last year runs them on his car - because obviously they must be rubbish!??? Oh, did I also mention that Duncan came first in the last round, and the K-Sport car (which also runs them) came third in the last round
If you want anymore proof I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige you.
If Brembos are as fantastic as you say (you clearly believe they're better than K-Sports), you have to question why 2 of the podium finishers on Time Attack don't run them....
Dunx's comment re AP's is also valid - for around £1000 they're considered great pieces of kit, but if the K-Sports are good enough for Time Attack they're certainly ample for my road car (and they saved me some money too
).I received mine this morning and the quality looks fantastic.
Just my opinion...
Last edited by MrNoisy; 20 June 2011 at 11:33 AM.
20 June 2011, 12:26 PM
#21
the diameter of and 17" wheel is big enough but its the offset that is the important bit could be a 20" wheel but if the offset is wrong they wouldn't fit can't remember what ofset is needed to clear sure someone will let you know on here
20 June 2011, 12:54 PM
#22
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2. Favouring a "cheap Chinese made knock off copy braking system" - ah yes, that's why Dynamix, the time attack winner last year runs them on his car - because obviously they must be rubbish!??? Oh, did I also mention that Duncan came first in the last round, and the K-Sport car (which also runs them) came third in the last round
If you want anymore proof I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige you.
If Brembos are as fantastic as you say (you clearly believe they're better than K-Sports), you have to question why 2 of the podium finishers on Time Attack don't run them....
Dunx's comment re AP's is also valid - for around £1000 they're considered great pieces of kit, but if the K-Sports are good enough for Time Attack they're certainly ample for my road car (and they saved me some money too).
I received mine this morning and the quality looks fantastic.
Just my opinion...
If you want anymore proof I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige you.
If Brembos are as fantastic as you say (you clearly believe they're better than K-Sports), you have to question why 2 of the podium finishers on Time Attack don't run them....
Dunx's comment re AP's is also valid - for around £1000 they're considered great pieces of kit, but if the K-Sports are good enough for Time Attack they're certainly ample for my road car (and they saved me some money too
).I received mine this morning and the quality looks fantastic.
Just my opinion...
What I would challenge you to do, is find a successful team that does use D2 K-Sport, etc that has nothing to do with marketing or sponsorship. i.e they use them because they are good
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that being a brake system manufacturer takes more than a pile of cheesy aluminium and owning a milling machine.
20 June 2011, 01:24 PM
#24
So you have personally checked the thousands of wheels available from all the suppliers and come up with the conclusion that only a few sets will fit? Seeing as you are the font of all this knowledge, why not specifically list the few 17" wheels that do fit........oh.......that's right...........your talking bollocks.
Secondly, if you had much experience with newage cars at all, you'd be aware that it's common knowledge that the STI wheels are different to the WRX ones, and that the majority of aftermarket 17" wheels won't fit over Brembos - that's why most people go to 18's.
If you'd bothered to take your head out of your **** you could have done a simple forum search and found this out yourself rather than making bull**** claims you can't back up and then having a go at me for exposing that.
Anysee, seeing you are either too incompetent to do so, or just can't be arsed, here you go (based on the 100 PCD offset), taken from this thread:
17" Wheels that fit the 04' STi Brembos (sizes and offsets) - note a lot of these are very expensive!
Rage Breaker = 17x7_ET42...
Enkei CDR9 = 17x7_ET40
Enkei ES-Tarmac = 17x8.5_ET48__(16 lbs)...
Enkei ES-Tarmac = 17x9_ET50_(16 lbs)...
Enkei RS5 = 17x7_ET40__(19.8 lbs)...
Enkei RS6 = 17x7.5_ET38...
Enkei RPF-1 = 17x8_ET45__(15.5 lbs)...
Volk SE37K = 17x8_ET38 & ET44...
Volk SE37K = 17x8.5_ET50...
Volk TE37 = 17x8_ET44...
Volk LE37T = 17x8.5_ET50__(15 lbs)...
Volk CE28N = 17x7.5_ET33__(13.8 lbs)...
Volk CE28N = 17x8__ET38 & ET44...
Volk CE28N = 17x8.5_ET40 & ET44...
Volk CE28N = 17x9_ET43__(14.8 lbs)...
STi RS-ZERO = 17x8_ET40...
5Zigen FN01RC = 17x8_ET35__(16.5 lbs)...
5Zigen Pro-Racer GN+ = 17x8.5_ET48...
ASA KA3 = 17x7.5_ET48__(23.4 lbs)...
ASA JH3 = 17x7.5_ET48__(22.0 lbs)...
Advan Racing V2 = 17x8.5_ET45...
Advan RG-II = 17x8.5_ET43...
Advan RG = 17x8.5_ET43__(16.5 lbs)...
Advan RS = 17x8.5_ET43...
Advan TCII = 17x8.5_ET45...
OEM UK/JDM STi (ver. 7)= 17x7. 5_ET53...
Rota Tarmac II = 17x7.5_ET48...
Rota SDR = 17x7.5_ET48__(18 lbs)...
Rota Torque = 17x8_ET48__(18.1 lbs)...
Rota Rev = 17x8_ET48__(18.1 lbs)...
Rota Boost = 17x8_ET48...
Rota Grid = 17x8_ET48...
Rota Slipstream = 17x8_ET48...
Rota Slipstream = 17x8.5_ET48__(21.0 lbs)...
Compomotive TH2 = 17x7.5_ET53
Compomotive TH3 = 17x7.5_ET53__(22 lbs)...
Work Meister S1-1P = 17x8.0_ET46...
Work Emotion CR KAI = 17x8_ET47...
SSR Competition = 17x8.5_ET48__(14.9 lbs)...
SSR GT7 = 17x7.5_ET48__(16.8 lbs)...
SSR GT2 = 17x8.5_ET48__(15.9 lbs)...
Racing Sparco Tarmacs = 17x7_ET48__(20.5 lbs)...
O.Z. Superturismo GT = 17x7.5...
O.Z. Ultraleggera = 17x8_ET48__(17.4 lbs)...
WedsSport SA-70 = 17x7.5_ET45__(16.8 lbs)...
I'm glad you like your new brakes, and I'm glad a few tuners cars have made the podium with them. A daily driver road user is a bit different for a race team (that also happens to sell the stuff). I wonder if they would tell you how many seasons they go through on the same caliper, lol more like individual races. Read up about the daily drivers on various forums that have junked the junk already. Siezed calipers, scored bores, soft as **** aluminium.......
What I would challenge you to do, is find a successful team that does use D2 K-Sport, etc that has nothing to do with marketing or sponsorship. i.e they use them because they are good
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that being a brake system manufacturer takes more than a pile of cheesy aluminium and owning a milling machine.
What I would challenge you to do, is find a successful team that does use D2 K-Sport, etc that has nothing to do with marketing or sponsorship. i.e they use them because they are good
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that being a brake system manufacturer takes more than a pile of cheesy aluminium and owning a milling machine.
I made what I believe was an informed choice based on my own experiences and their feedback as well as articles online, and recommendations from a tuner I use (who runs a race team), so I had a balanced view.
My mates with Brembos and one piece discs experienced the same fade I do on my WRX with 4 pots, but just not quite as bad.
Mates with K-Sports and AP's had far less, if no fade at all, and I attribute much of this to the two piece discs they run (although one of my mates with AP's did once manage to set fire to them
).Yes, I'm aware that I could buy Brembos, and have them reconditioned, and run PF discs with them, but then you're talking stupidly expensive, and my budget isn't up to that.
In regards to seized calipers, to quote Bren @ Apex "We have NEVER had one reported caliper failure, no sticking pistons, no leaking seals, nothing" - I haven't seen anyone jump on that thread and start tearing into him which would be my expectation if they had big problems like you're insinuating.
Regarding price - they're made in Taiwan, where it's cheaper to manufacture; I don't see Ian Godney or Bob in any of these threads saying they're crap quality, which I would expect them to if that was their opinion.
The point regarding sponsorship is a fair one (although I don't appreciate the unnecessarily aggressive way you chose to phrase it), but Dynamix's car is the BC Racing Time Attack car, so with them behind him, arguably he could probably have run the car on Brembos if he'd chosen to.
Just out of interest, can I ask - do you think Brembos are better than AP Racing components as well?
Few bits of reading:
https://www.scoobynet.com/wheels-tyr...-k-sports.html - Dynamix states "K-Sports are 'way better' than Brembos"
https://www.scoobynet.com/wheels-tyr...-any-good.html
https://www.scoobynet.com/wheels-tyr...bo-fronts.html
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...r-k-sport.html
Last edited by MrNoisy; 20 June 2011 at 03:18 PM.
20 June 2011, 02:37 PM
#25
My car was a daily driver running K sports for 3 seasons now during which time it had done around 40,000 miles on he road in all weather... including snow, ice rain sleet hail and everything that the UK can throw at it. Not once have the calipers or seals objected, and not once have they failed on track or on the road. They are very good. Obviously my car is now pretty much full time track car but it has grown from a daily driver and still is road useable.
20 June 2011, 03:16 PM
#26
My car was a daily driver running K sports for 3 seasons now during which time it had done around 40,000 miles on he road in all weather... including snow, ice rain sleet hail and everything that the UK can throw at it. Not once have the calipers or seals objected, and not once have they failed on track or on the road. They are very good. Obviously my car is now pretty much full time track car but it has grown from a daily driver and still is road useable.
I did a lot of research before I bit the bullet and decided to go the K-Sport route, so glad I've made a good decision. Just need to get mine fitted now
20 June 2011, 04:24 PM
#27
I've had the 330mm/100PCD K-Sports/DS2500s combo on my STi 5 for a few months now. Problems so far? Zilch. Not even a trace of pad squeal! lol.
I've been in a Blob STi with OEM Brembos/DS2500s (and OEM discs too) and I'd say the braking performance seemed on par with the K-Sports.
Obviously the Blob is around 220kg heavier (1495 IIRC?), than the 1270kg STi 5, so that is a good advert for the Brembos, it has to be said. But how the two systems stack up against each other, as regards potential disc warpage, brake fade, etc., haven't got a clue.....
I've been in a Blob STi with OEM Brembos/DS2500s (and OEM discs too) and I'd say the braking performance seemed on par with the K-Sports.
Obviously the Blob is around 220kg heavier (1495 IIRC?), than the 1270kg STi 5, so that is a good advert for the Brembos, it has to be said. But how the two systems stack up against each other, as regards potential disc warpage, brake fade, etc., haven't got a clue.....
Last edited by joz8968; 20 June 2011 at 04:26 PM.
20 June 2011, 04:39 PM
#28
I've had the 330mm/100PCD K-Sports/DS2500s combo on my STi 5 for a few months now. Problems so far? Zilch. Not even a trace of pad squeal! lol.
I've been in a Blob STi with OEM Brembos/DS2500s (and OEM discs too) and I'd say the braking performance seemed on par with the K-Sports.
Obviously the Blob is around 220kg heavier (1495 IIRC?), than the 1270kg STi 5, so that is a good advert for the Brembos, it has to be said. But how the two systems stack up against each other, as regards potential disc warpage, brake fade, etc., haven't got a clue.....
I've been in a Blob STi with OEM Brembos/DS2500s (and OEM discs too) and I'd say the braking performance seemed on par with the K-Sports.
Obviously the Blob is around 220kg heavier (1495 IIRC?), than the 1270kg STi 5, so that is a good advert for the Brembos, it has to be said. But how the two systems stack up against each other, as regards potential disc warpage, brake fade, etc., haven't got a clue.....
a) I know mine are new, and that therefore I should logically be able to rely on them, and
b) They'll fit under my 18" summer wheels and my OEM WRX 17" winter wheels (whereas the Brembos wouldn't).
I'd certainly like to drive an STI and see what the fade was like after 3 or 4 hard stops; that's always been my biggest gripe with the one piece disc setup on mine (also apparently the WRX calipers are more susceptible to heat buildup).
Whilst I could have paid money to have stainless pistons put into mine etc etc. for the cost I just thought it made far more sense to uprate them and go for something better.
Last edited by MrNoisy; 20 June 2011 at 05:00 PM.
20 June 2011, 04:55 PM
#29
I have front K-Sport 8 pots 356mm with DS2500 and rear 6 pots K-Sport 330mm with DS2500,in my view these are much better than Brembo setup(i'm not prepared pay £750 for full front and rear with shot disc and pads,when i bought for £1000 this setup front and rear K-Sport)
Jura
Jura
20 June 2011, 04:55 PM
#30
Yep, I chose the K's over the Brems. for these reasons:-
1) Brand new! i.e. a 'known quantity', in that respect!
2) Seperate bell/rotor (to alleviate fade/warping)
Price diff. - very little. Esp. when you factor in that you don't know if you'd be inheriting a warped disc/s and/or siezed caliper/s, if getting 2nd hand Brembos (let alone a decent set of pads with meat on). If any one of those items needs addressing, then the comparable 'starting off', like-for-like budget will be immediately blown out of the water!
1) Brand new! i.e. a 'known quantity', in that respect!
2) Seperate bell/rotor (to alleviate fade/warping)
Price diff. - very little. Esp. when you factor in that you don't know if you'd be inheriting a warped disc/s and/or siezed caliper/s, if getting 2nd hand Brembos (let alone a decent set of pads with meat on). If any one of those items needs addressing, then the comparable 'starting off', like-for-like budget will be immediately blown out of the water!
Last edited by joz8968; 20 June 2011 at 04:58 PM.