si-thee

How much would I be expecting to pay for a forged 2.5 engine not Inc turbo alternator ect... ?

Cheers

oobyJu

iTrader: (2)

new, used, rebuilt?

BlueBugEye

iTrader: (12)

Mine was £4k from Andy Williams - Spec as follows:
Compression ratio 8:0:1
2nd hand EJ257 block (99.5 bore) - Deglazed
New Jap spec Nitrided Crank
Forged H section Rods - ARP2000 bolts
Wossner 99.5 forged pistons
ACL race bearings (main and shell)
New HP Oil pump
Cometic Head gaskets (1.2mm)
ARP Headstud conversion (11mm)
New Cam belt
New Water Pump
New Sump
New Oil Modine
2nd hand Sti VVC heads and Cams, rebuilt with valve seats lapped and re-shimmed

Fully assembled as a long engine.

si-thee

[QUOTE=oobyJu;9843770]new, used, rebuilt?[/


Possibly used and working, ie someone is stripping car for bits instead of trying to sell it as a whole

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

BlueBugEye: you forgot the £2000 odd needed for a six speed box

si-thee

Already got the 6speed fitted in mine. Just always fancied a forged 2.5 can't beat displacement

Ramdog81

What does a Long engine mean?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Usually short engine means the block(s), pistons, rods, crank, sump ie: the bottom half of the engine, and long engine means the heads as well, including cams, covers etc, ie: all you need APART from ancillaries which can be oil, and water pumps, alternator etc etc.
Sometimes they are included in a long engine although rarely the alternator.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

How long is a piece of string mate: depends what you want and what you already have. You should be aware that's it not the engine per se that is expensive, it's the bits you need to attach to it exploit its potential and make it reliable.

Put it this way. I have a PPP Hawkeye. It's currently having its internals forged and supporting mods to take it up to 450bhp+. The bill is 10k+

Power costs, as they say!

bigsinky

err i beg to differ. most of the big power subarus are running a stroked 2.2 blocks. 2.35 is the tuner's choice more often than not.

And you should know better. RELIABLE power costs, as they say. any fool can throw 40lb of boost through a turbo charger and make 800bhp. 100 yards down the road the engine will calve itself.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Can't beat displacement for torque

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

speak to engine tuner and get a 2.1 for about 4 grand and it good for 450 plus fitted or he can supply the short motor built for about 2500 now thats a a bargin

si-thee

More torque is my aim, I had a hawkeye last year but put a little too much through it and started using more oil than fuel, so went and got an rs6 as an every day family car but I missed the fun of a Subaru so bought a classic as my weekend toy that has had quite alot of money spent on it engine,brakes,gearbox ect... But ultimately I always thought I would go for 2.5l lump for the torque more than anything.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there i go personally for 2.1 stroker for £2.8k(supplied and fitted),its simply best for money.Or if you want for £4k-£4.5k you have 2.35.


Jura

si-thee

think im going to look into the stroker route could my engine be used for this?

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there contact Neil Case@Slowboy Racing about this,he is going build mine this months 2.1 stroker.




Jura

si-thee

will do cheers

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there here are contact details on Neil Case@Slowboy Racing
077821 06604 and email: sales@slowboy-racing.co.uk

And if you have 2.0 engine now,i don't see any problem why you can get 2.1 stroker.




Jura

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I was sure I said something about reliability above the soundbite!!

bigsinky

hmmmm. yes i should learn to read. Apologies.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Tis ok ; the importance of reliable power is a point worth reiterating!!

People who try and do things on the cheap only end up paying more in the long run to get the damage they've caused fixed or have to sell up when they realise the real costs involved.

Ns04

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Just look at my point:On mine JDM WRX piston no.3 have low compression,i suspect piston ring failure.For OE rebuild price is around £1.5k,for 2.1 stroker is £2.8k which hold 550bhp+ with supporting mods(i will be happy with 450bhp+ with supporting turbo).....



Jura

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

1.5k not enough for a std rebuild I'd suggest mate, unless you can take the engine out and put it back yourself, it would be more like 3k.

This is what people forget: often a "short" engine can seem like a right bargain, but it's the labour to fit it, buy the ancillaries and have them installed etc that costs.

There is a BIG price difference between an engine that is 500bhp capable and an installed engine with the supporting mods that will produce 500bhp (i.e. a drive in, drive out solution)

If you're starting from a WRX the costs are even higher as the gearbox will most probably shat itself when you get around the 400 ft lbs level, you'll need decent brakes (2k) if you want the best, i.e. APs and then there is the suspension 1.5k for a decent set up fitted and lazer aligned etc.

Bare in mind, my starting point was a 2.5 hawk STi PPP, to get this to a safe and reliable 450/450 car with OEM manners and drivability here's my shopping list (I won't tell you how much all the parts cost, that's a bit vulgar, but it's worth baring in mind, as an indication, that the turbo for the job alone is costing 1.5k - that's half the price of what some have asked for a short 2.5 engine!)

- Full mongoose Exhaust system


- Tubular Headers. Next Gen II spec

- APi variable rate injectors and fuel pressure regulator (Fuel lab) with a uprated (RCM?) pump

- Parallel fuel rail conversion

- SC46 billet turbo

- Supertech pistons and rings

- APi Forged rods

- Gaskets and seals

- ACL bearings

- Uprated Head stud set

- Kevlar Cambelt

- Modded oil pump

- Oil cooler

- Cosworth sump baffle

- Hybrid FMIC


- Simota Inner wing cone filter

- AP 6 speed clutch

- APi light 'wheel

- Heatproof manifold spacers

- Turbo hose set

Oh, and then there's the mapping!

The engine work (i.e. forging the internals) only amounts to about half of the cost, but all I'd end up with at that point is a bullet proof hawk that was making about 100 bhp and 100 lbs ft torque less than it was capable of. i.e. I'd have the reliability, but not the power. To get the power AND the reliability, you need all the supporting parts and that's what bumps the price up from the 3k or so just for the engine component cost to the 10k+ that a 'drive in, drive out' 450/450 conversion REALLY entails. Of course, if you can do the work yourself, there are big savings to be made.

BTW before anyone says: "you've been ripped off mate"

Here's what Scoobyclinic (known for low labour charges) ask for a "drive in, drive out" 450 conversion.

http://www.scoobyclinic.com/services...ning_sc450.htm

Ns04

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi matey,i don't know from where you have prices,but these prices i have from Neil@Slowboy Racing which is my mapper and will build my 2.1 Stroker.
Price is for £2.8k(drive in and out,including all in gaskets,seals,fluids and if you want just your std.turbo ) for 2.1 stroker,and parts will be used
ACL Big End Bearing
ACL Main bearings
Wossner Pistons
K1 Rods
14mm ARP Sutds
EJ257 Crankshaft
AVCS Heads
Cometic HG set

Same price(or similar £3k) for 2.1 stroker have TFS,drive in and drive out.....Parts i don't know what are used

And now about mine transmission/geabox i'm running 4EAT with uprated Valve Body,Mocal Oil cooler and this will hold at least 450bhp.
Syvecs ECU will be at February fitted and mapped.
Brakes still good are K-Sport 356mm at front,Tein Super Street,some ARB and droplinks.
Turbo we have 2nd hand which make 450bhp.... GT30
I don't do nothing on my own,i don't know nothing about the engine building...




Jura

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hiya mate,

Don't think I'm having a pop at you here, but just using your example to illustrate how costs soon escalate and always amount to more than the engine cost alone!

ACL Big End Bearing
ACL Main bearings
Wossner Pistons
K1 Rods
14mm ARP Sutds
EJ257 Crankshaft
AVCS Heads
Cometic HG set

2.8k drive in and drive out for that little lot is a really good price

BUT

You then have the Syvecs = 1.6k fitted and mapped, so you're already near the 4.5k mark

Add on the turbo cost: Good used GT30 or similar, what are we looking at... £800 If you wanted the best MD321 or SC billet variety. You can't really scrimp on the turbo as it is kinda critical So there's 5.3k total cost

AND presumably your car already has

Uprated exhaust and headers
Uprated fuel pump
FMIC
Induction

(Looking at about 1.6k for the above lot)

So you or someone else has paid for those upgrades, The point is that they're all factors in the real overall cost of getting the car to that level!

Simimilarly we know you have:

Brakes K-Sport 356mm at front. So, about 1k there then

Tein Super Street,some ARB and droplinks. Probably another 1k there then.

Now we're up to 9k. and we've not even talked about your transmission.

The point I'm trying to make, is that the engine might cost 2.8k, but the REAL overall cost to get a car to that level of tune is much higher! I think that's what people faill to take into account.

The best thing to do is obviously to get a car with lots of the required goodies on it in the first place, which is maybe what you've done (?)

In a nutshell, my point is that there is much more in achieving a power output than just getting an engine capable of producing a power level reliably.

Best,

Ns04

bruce

iTrader: (5)

I have a Crawford Performance S1 based engine in my MY97WRX. I am looking to sell the whole car rather than break at the moment. I can PM more details of the cars specs if any body is interested in a project or for parts.