Manifold Air Temperatures
23 January 2011, 09:47 PM
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Manifold Air Temperatures
Hi,
I'm going to make my self a manifold air temperature gauge to monitor charge temps. Can somebody tell me what range i should be monitoring and also, does the 1994 STi have a manifold air temp sensor for the ECU?
Thanks,
Nick.
I'm going to make my self a manifold air temperature gauge to monitor charge temps. Can somebody tell me what range i should be monitoring and also, does the 1994 STi have a manifold air temp sensor for the ECU?
Thanks,
Nick.
23 January 2011, 10:03 PM
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inake air temp is usually read from an intake pipe, some manafacturers incorparate it in the MAF sensor or just after. im not sure disturbing an intake tract will be the best idea.
23 January 2011, 10:09 PM
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Yes, the maff reads the intake temp at the filter before it get to the Turbo but I want to know how hot it is as its going in to the intake port, i.e. how effective are the air cooling devices and monitor them to see if I can make them more effective.
Later cars have this fitted and its monitor by the OBD of the ECU but dinasour cars dont have this luxury lol.
Later cars have this fitted and its monitor by the OBD of the ECU but dinasour cars dont have this luxury lol.
23 January 2011, 10:18 PM
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I'd say the best person to speak to is Harvey. He knows everything there is to know about under bonnet temps.
That reminds me must ask him something.
That reminds me must ask him something.
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23 January 2011, 10:34 PM
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Okay, I'll say MrChips and r1c said I had to pester you Harvey 
I suppose if he doesn't want bothered, he'll not reply
If anybody else has any advice on the subject of is doing this, please tell me about it.
Cheers
I suppose if he doesn't want bothered, he'll not reply
If anybody else has any advice on the subject of is doing this, please tell me about it.
Cheers
23 January 2011, 11:00 PM
#9
Air temp, charge temp, can be monitored, Spec C has a charge temp in the inlet manifold,
You need to read temps upto 60 Deg but do not be on boost over 40 Deg, have water spray come on at 40 deg, to keep charge temp down.
There are Charge temp gauges out there,
Best thing is to google the dude,
Hope this helps
Bez
You need to read temps upto 60 Deg but do not be on boost over 40 Deg, have water spray come on at 40 deg, to keep charge temp down.
There are Charge temp gauges out there,
Best thing is to google the dude,
Hope this helps
Bez
23 January 2011, 11:06 PM
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Air temp, charge temp, can be monitored, Spec C has a charge temp in the inlet manifold,
You need to read temps upto 60 Deg but do not be on boost over 40 Deg, have water spray come on at 40 deg, to keep charge temp down.
There are Charge temp gauges out there,
Best thing is to google the dude,
Hope this helps
Bez
You need to read temps upto 60 Deg but do not be on boost over 40 Deg, have water spray come on at 40 deg, to keep charge temp down.
There are Charge temp gauges out there,
Best thing is to google the dude,
Hope this helps
Bez
Yea, helps a lot, cheers bud.
24 January 2011, 01:59 PM
#11
I bought an act gauge from harvey, it's fitted with the sender inside the inlet tract near the inlet end of the intercooler pipe.
The gauge is fitted INTO the instrument surround, left hand side lower. THAT bit took an hour to carve neatly. The rest is a doddle.
£80 or thereabouts, illuminated soft green.
The gauge is fitted INTO the instrument surround, left hand side lower. THAT bit took an hour to carve neatly. The rest is a doddle.
£80 or thereabouts, illuminated soft green.
24 January 2011, 03:16 PM
#12
there was a thread last August which may be of interest, 'Charge temps before and after intercooler' by Foobari. I did similer but tucked the thermocouple wire under the intercooler/throttlebody connecting pipe as with the turbo in the thread.
Trev
Trev
24 January 2011, 03:45 PM
#13
I have one on my air filter and another in the actual inlet tract.
Comparing them is interesting.
Using an FMIC, the act is often well below the temperature of the air being taken in to the filter.
24 January 2011, 04:16 PM
#14
the thermocouple end is inside the inlet tract, at the throttlebody connection. I loosened the large jubilee clip, pushed it forward, eased up the pipe and pushed the thermocouple wire into the middle of the charge stream. the same with the turbo.
I have a TMIC with water/meth injection. Air charge temps are usually within 5/7deg of ambient, Turbo outlet temps peak at around 133c but only momentarily.
Trev
I have a TMIC with water/meth injection. Air charge temps are usually within 5/7deg of ambient, Turbo outlet temps peak at around 133c but only momentarily.
Trev
24 January 2011, 04:34 PM
#15
Some setups in this thread make mine seam feeble LOL
this was my effort, not alot of ££ (£4.00 in total) involved,didnt want to go OTT etc,just a rough guide/idea on temps,not saying its 100% accurate,but its not far off and has a recycle rate of 1 second.
you can see the digital readout unit under my stereo here
and i put some washers glued to the probe to stop it being sucked into the inlet manifold after this pic
this was my effort, not alot of ££ (£4.00 in total) involved,didnt want to go OTT etc,just a rough guide/idea on temps,not saying its 100% accurate,but its not far off and has a recycle rate of 1 second.
you can see the digital readout unit under my stereo here
and i put some washers glued to the probe to stop it being sucked into the inlet manifold after this pic
24 January 2011, 06:54 PM
#16
For the wider audience.
Additional information for what it is worth, when a turbo is being run hard the temperature of the air leaving the compressor outlet can be 180-200 deg.C.
Hi Nick,
I would be cautious about measuring the temperature in the aluminium inlet manifold simply because the inlet manifold can get quite hot because of heat transfer whereas the air charge will be below that temperature. It is for this reason that thermal spacers are fitted between the cylinder head and the inlet manifold.
THe normal place to measure air charge temperature is the joiner just before the throttle body using a metal pipe insert if necessary to act as a carrier for the temperature probe.
My first ACT guages would only measure to 69.9C and on an STi 3 Wagon with OE TMIC the ACT shot beyond that range in a sprint from 0-100 mph.
I have never repeated that experiment on a Classic top mount and a lot would depend on whether the turbo was running flat out and what top mount you had. On the example above I was producing 335 bhp from a VF24 so it was pretty well maxed out. Had I been running a VF 34 for instance it would have been more on top of the job and so less temperature (heat)
I have also monitored ACTs on STi 8 top mounts as an alternative to a front mount but the results were very disappointing.
On a 94 STi RA running something like a TD05 I would guess you could get at least 80 or maybe 90 degrees C. if you were getting close to 350 bhp so as for range you need something that will go from -15 to +99.9 or similar and as you are not bothered about the ambient temperature anything that works in the 10-99 area will do.
Becasue I now run front mount intercoolers only we generally have air charge temperatures never more than 20 above ambient so there would have to be something far wrong to see much more than 50C even with heat soak on a hot day.
I hope this helps but come back if you need more information.
BTW I sell ACT guages £82.50 posted but I suspect you want the enjoyment of making your own.
Regards,
Harvey.
I would be cautious about measuring the temperature in the aluminium inlet manifold simply because the inlet manifold can get quite hot because of heat transfer whereas the air charge will be below that temperature. It is for this reason that thermal spacers are fitted between the cylinder head and the inlet manifold.
THe normal place to measure air charge temperature is the joiner just before the throttle body using a metal pipe insert if necessary to act as a carrier for the temperature probe.
My first ACT guages would only measure to 69.9C and on an STi 3 Wagon with OE TMIC the ACT shot beyond that range in a sprint from 0-100 mph.
I have never repeated that experiment on a Classic top mount and a lot would depend on whether the turbo was running flat out and what top mount you had. On the example above I was producing 335 bhp from a VF24 so it was pretty well maxed out. Had I been running a VF 34 for instance it would have been more on top of the job and so less temperature (heat)
I have also monitored ACTs on STi 8 top mounts as an alternative to a front mount but the results were very disappointing.
On a 94 STi RA running something like a TD05 I would guess you could get at least 80 or maybe 90 degrees C. if you were getting close to 350 bhp so as for range you need something that will go from -15 to +99.9 or similar and as you are not bothered about the ambient temperature anything that works in the 10-99 area will do.
Becasue I now run front mount intercoolers only we generally have air charge temperatures never more than 20 above ambient so there would have to be something far wrong to see much more than 50C even with heat soak on a hot day.
I hope this helps but come back if you need more information.
BTW I sell ACT guages £82.50 posted but I suspect you want the enjoyment of making your own.
Regards,
Harvey.
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