syke

Hi guys,
might be looking at an engine renovation soon. I'm thinking of upping the power some at the same time. What will I need to reach 400 bhp or a tad more? Oh and I want it to be reliable and drivable (i.e. as quick spool as possible)

As in topic, the car is a v3 sti and I already have the following bits in it:
Autronic PnP ECU
FMIC
Walbro 255l/h
3" dp with race cat narrowing to 2.5" (ninja from scoobyworld)

My thoughts are these: ACL race bearings, Better pistons / rods (make? type?), ARP head studs, new injectors (make? type?), new turbo (type?)

Anything I'm missing here?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yup, about 5-6k's worth of stuff

You have the ecu and the fmic, the engine rebuild will cost about 3.5k, you need the pistons, rods, turbo, a new crank is advisable and so are the bearings, change the oil pump to an uprated item, a clutch and gearbox will be required as yours wont last long and you need a BIG set of stoppers.
Bank for about 8k and you should be ok or sell and buy a UK MY03 STI and mod that to 400bhp for considerably less

Tony

stevemoir

iTrader: (24)

md321 variant (1400 - 1700)

6 speed gearbox non and dccd (1800 - 2500) inlcuding shafts etc

rebuild (what tony says) CDB may be needed unless v3 have them

brakes (newage brembos 5 x 100 F&R 500 - 700) or k sports >800

so your looking at minimum 6.5K

you could spend that or buy an newage but my newage has cost me about the same including fitting everything and that just on a standard SCDB but i wouldnt part with it (so much fun to drive)

hope this helps

steve

bigsinky

hahahahahahahahahahahaha this makes me laugh. give me 400hp for about a grand. they just have no idea do they!!!!

mr_D

iTrader: (12)

another pointless reply. no wonder you have so many posts.

he is only asking what he needs. he didnt say anything about having a grand only.

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

all depends on wether you can do some of the work yourself though as well,that can knock a fair wedge of the price,building my forge motor hasnt cost anywhere near 3.5k,obviously cant do nout about the price of the box/diff and things but all the brake work and suspesion and so on can be done by youeself if you have some mechanical knowledge.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

True, but most people wont have the space to do all that work
Parts alone for the engine will set you back around 2k, then add the turbo cost £1400, gearbox and diff @2.5k, clutch at 500 and brakes at 800 and your pushing 7k, still not cheap, and thats on a 13 year old car, so better to look what is available (there is a 410bhp MY03 newage STI up for 8.5k with fsh, 6 years newer etc).
Is it worth the effort, or do you upgrade to something newer?

Tony

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

Very true tony it beggers believe on times what some will sink into theses cars though,im probably 7k in now all told

belliott69

iTrader: (3)

for a start don't buy a newage, 400 in that is about enough to see off a 320bhp classic. as has been said though forged engine rebuild would be on the cards, you won't need a closed deck as it not needed for that power but you could always get one just incase you decide you want more power in the future. bigger turbo, injectors, etc will also be needed and a decent remapable ecu. gearbox could last with some mechanical sympathy but there will always be the time it will go so you would have to get some readies together for either ppg or a six speed. the last thing will be some decent stoppers, like some 6 pot ap's just so you can use the speed.

good luck mate

syke

hi guys and thanks for all the replies.

I didn't say anything about the budget but it's definitely not just 1 grand

As I'm looking at a possible HG failure I thought I might just as well up the power a bit when the HG is changed.

Or possibly try to find a used engine with the right internals.

How many ccs should the injectors cope with?
No need for parallell fuel rails or an FPR?
Is the md321 turbo the best way to go? Early spool and can deliver the power without problems?

Of course I understand that the gearbox won't survive too long but hey, when it goes it's a good a reason as any to upgrade, right?

mr_D

iTrader: (12)

Parallel fuel rails and fpr are definitely worth it so you will need that.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Easier option is to get a newage sti bottom end, will handle 400bhp and save a big chunk of money over a forged build.

Banny

syke

If I get a 2.5L newage bottom end, will it make 400bhp safely on oe internals?

Can I use my v3 heads on it and if so, what changes are needed to the heads to make them fit?

dunx

iTrader: (3)

No a 2 litre STI will, with ease, a 2.5 is at it's limits already at 400 bhp, IMHO.

You can pick up a forged 2.5 bottom end for £2K, but that will annihilate your gearbox.

dunx

syke

Thanks for the replies. Here's the recipe so far then:

2.0L newage sti short motor with OE internals.
V3 heads from my current engine.
Uprated Oil Pump (RCM).
ARP bolts.
550cc injectors.
An FPR (tips on make / model?)
Parallell Fuel Rails?
MD321H turbo (I was told the MD321T would be quite laggy on a 2L)

Is an aftermarket oil cooler needed?
Aftermarket headers or ported OE headers?

Anything else?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

A lot will depend on the actual quality of your existing STi 3 engine.
In good condition the STi 3 engine is perfectly capable of running at 400 bhp. If the engine is not in good condition then I suggest you fit a set of ACL Race Bearings and uprate the oil pump which can be change out of £100 fitted. There is no need to change the pistons or rods unless you want to go above the 400 bhp mark.

OK bearing in mind what you already have here is what you need.
Ported headers with matched uppipe or GT2 Spec headers with special uppipe.
550 injectors, new or second hand.
400 bhp turbo such as HS207 14 HP.
Remap.

Achieving 400 bhp will rely on the mods being complimentary with what is already there and the car being well mapped. Expect to break your TY752 gearbox before too long and you can replace it with a TY754 of the appropriate spec.

At 400 bhp you do not need crank, rods, pistons, fuel pressure regulator, parallel fuel rails etc. etc. and although they are nice to have they are not needed.

seddomyster

iTrader: (9)

hi harvey what u think the limit is on a 99uk engine bhp wise? i cant remember if asked in past an also im not the thrashing type. serviced regular and engine mint. sorry to jump thread mate.

KAS35RSTI

iTrader: (73)

I would agree with what Harvey has said.

Why are some people mentioning costs when the OP is only asking which turbo, injectors & rods he needs to reach 400 & to confirm if anything esle is needed. I think you need to read his post again for those who havent read it properly!!

KAS35RSTI

iTrader: (73)

You dont really need parallell fuel rails. Aeromotive is a good FPR. The setup above will give you a reliable 400 as the safe limit on the STi 8 block is 450. The 321H would be ideal on the 2.0l making it a very nice revvy road car. You dont need a oil cooler at that level however a Zerosports thermostat would do you good. Headers wise i would speak to Harvey as he is the man but personally i would go for tubular headers. Finally if you can get the V3 heads ported then that would be a great advantage & flip the inlet manifold.

ronjeramy

iTrader: (1)

Harvey would the above spec apply to a version 5 type r, and is that gearbox a TY754 also? Sorry for the hi-jack

syke

Hi,
again, thanks for all the replies, much appreciated!

Regarding Harveys response about my current v3 engine's condition - I'd say it's not good, but as I haven't had it apart, I'm not totally sure.

The problems I'm having are a possible HG failure (overheating) as well as the front crank seal popping out every now and then (it has been changed 3 times in as many years) so after asking around I suspect bad piston rings or perhaps something with the crank case ventilation?

So the question is if it's cheaper to source an ok sti 8 short motor with OE internals than stripping the current motor down and maybe change the piston rings, ACL bearings etc.

And by cheaper I mean leaving the job to a professional - oh what I wouldn't give to have space to do it at home and learn something at the same time.

trell

as daft as it sounds it would be cheaper to buy a classic all ready done ie 6.5k to mod yours or 6.5k to buy one all ready done on the road.

Its a night mare lol

best of luck mate if you do it your self set up a project page as i will be interested in following it

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The pistons in the STi 3 are good so that is an advantage over a 99UK.
The 99UK is still good to 380 bhp or some similar figure but what is good for one man may be no good for another because of different driving styles, not letting the car warm up, being hard on it generally.
There is nothing wrong with the STi 3 crank or any other Subaru crank for what is proposed above.
You don't need to go to the expense of an STi 8 block and if you do make sure you have adequate bore clearance.
My first post related to the cheapest way to get power out of an STi 3 engine in good condition which would not involve removing the engine from the car nor would it involve removing the cylinder heads. It now appears the engine is not in good condition as it needs a cylinder head gasket and there is some issue with crank seals.
My comments above apply just as well to the STi 3, 4, 5 or 6 although the STi 3 and 4 probably has better pistons than the 5 and 6 but they are all good to 400 bhp. I am actually running an STi 3 Wagon on the above spec with a particular Hybrid turbo at 422 bhp and it would appear the cylinder head gasket has just gone. This car has done 20000 plus miles to this spec.
The advantage of using the STI 5 or 6 which will do 400 bhp is that you already have a TY754 gearbox which is stronger than the TY752 fitted to the STi 3 and 4.
If you have adequate size injectors you do not need a fuel pressure regulator so consider 740 injectors. With 550 injectors it may be safer to have an FPR so the pressure can be jacked if necessary to achieve 400 bhp.

Referring specifically to the OP, it is clear the engine has to come out if there is a cylinder head gasket failure which is easy to determine beyond any doubt. At that point the heads will need surfaced and you might as well increase the compression ratio at the same time. While the engine is out the bores can be inspected, honed if necessary and new piston rings fitted. Now because the engine is already out you may as well replace the bearings after carefully inspecting the crank.

Having done a number of engines STi 3,4, 5, and 6 and STi 8 etc. everything here is from hands on knowledge.

syke

Thanks again for your reply, you taking the time to answer with all the knowledge you have is greatly appreciated

Do you think it would be cheaper to buy an "ok" STI 8 short motor than fix the current one (as I'm probably not doing it myself). I have an offer on an sti 8 short motor for about £1100.

And another question to aladdin:
Why would I want to reverse the inlet manifold? To get more space? I've read that it's a hassle to do it and the gains aren't that big unless you go for biiiig power.

syke

Yeah, it probably would But I like this car and the advantage of doing it on this one is that I know what has been done and by who and when.

I promise to set up a project page if I suddenly find space to do all this by myself