Zak Shaker

hello,

does anybody has done LPG conversion ? it is a wellknown fuel for economical purpose. But this is not what interest me here, it has higher octane value, so it should be able to handle more boost and agressive timing. does anyone has been able to have good results? does it compensate its slow flame burning ? and finaly have you been able to have more power figure than with nomal RON95 fuel ?

cheers

wrxpablos

LPG is less powerful, so even with Ignition advance to make use of the 116 octane rating you may only get minimal, if any gains. You also need to factor in the cost of conversion as you need a seperate tank, fuel system and stand alone ecu to run it all. TBH LPG is old hat now, biofuel is the way to go. 25% more power (although it uses it up quicker than petrol too) It will run on you standard fuel system in the same tank (can compensate for different petrol and biofuel mixtures). All you need is a ecu remap to run it and possibly larger injectors further down the tuning line. Plus you can get home brewing kits online! No more petrol sation prices!

Zak Shaker

interesting. will have to read about that then

500

I was under the impression that biofuel was to replace diesel????

wrxpablos

Saab already sell them duel fuel petrol and bio. Team halfords run biofuel in btcc??

Zak Shaker

any URL about that?

500

E85 bioethonol a ha, not the chip fat that you run in a diesel, biofuel.

Someone on 22b has just mapped his car for E85,
with the change in the map, he has seen around a 50bhp increase.
it uses around 30%more fuel than just on petrol

silent running

The problem is that Biofuel, which I can actually buy locally, is no cheaper than normal unleaded. It's almost as if the people who are in charge of these things are too stupid to realise that if you want the public to take to biofuel you need to make it half the price of petrol...oh wait, they ARE that stupid.

LPG on the other hand might be 'old hat' but who cares when it's 45p a litre?

Shark Man

They are oil companies...their primary product is oil based products, therefore they want to sell all of that before moving onto biofuels which require more investment to bring into mass distribution....it's currently just a token effort to appease the Governments who want us to stop using fossil fuels. What they charge for it reflects this (even though its taxed much less); they don't want everyone running about in biofueled cars just yet.

The time will come when they will have no choice, but until then, the oil comapnies are going to maximise their income by flogging what they already have.....can't let all those oil rigs go to waste now, can we?





In answer to the orginal thread question. Power extracted from fuel isn't just about octane. That just dicates how controllable it is to burn in high temperature/compression scienarios. As mentioned the flame front speed, plus the actual calorific value of the fuel is of equal, if not greater importance. No point in having high octane fuel if the engine a) can't ignite it, b) the fuel has a lower calorific content or c) has an excessively slow flame front speed. LPG is one of those fuels, which is why you can't really extract any massive power increase. Octane boosters and additive in certain SUL fuels also have an effect, they increase octane, yet dilutes the fuel with less combustible compnents so it has lower overall calorific content. It's a long winded subject, but thats as concise as I can get it.

silent running

Interesting, but not so sure about them being oil companies - biofuel is in very limited supply and in my neck of the woods (Norfolk / Suffolk border) it's my local Morrisons supermarket that supply it, not an 'oil company'. I don't believe it's a business decision to make it that expensive. It's just government short sightedness and ineptitude - the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. The 'green' department wants to push biofuels, so gets a few farmers to start churning it out, but the treasury wants to rake in more fuel tax so fails to cut biofuel taxation to the levels of LPG. End result...zero take-up of the new fuel as it has no demonstrable benefit to the motorist.

The people who make (or fail to make) the decisions on issues like these are also the same ones who try to get people to use public transport by making private transport more expensive and inconvenient rather than public transport much cheaper, even though trains and buses run regardless and have to be paid for whether they are full or empty.

borat52

Actually its the government. I believe there is a lot of tax on bio fuel, they should make it tax free, and then when enough have switched start bumping the tax up on it, if they must. People in the UK need to get there heads around the fact that being reliant on the middle east not only gives them a big handle over out fuel prices but also gives the terrorist elements a way to make a lot of cash from us. Id get my car E85 tomorrow converted if I could but it locally, and I bet many more less enthusiastic than me would if they could buy it locally at half the price of crude originated fuel.

Zak Shaker

any link on how to do your own e85?

David Lock

Hint:

1) Go to Google

2) Type in "Making your own e85"

3) Press go button.

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Seems methanol is cheaper and your car can be remapped to use a petrol /methanol mix with no issues. See this thread on 22b. 22B Bulletin Board: Methanol concentration?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

There is a huge thread on NASOIC that cover E85.

We should all be going into our local petrol stations to ask for it. When demand is there it will be fulfilled - hopefully without the government stealing even more tax from us on it.

E85 fuel FAQ - Engine Management & Tuning - NASIOC

Zak Shaker

David Lock, what is google ??? lol, well if I ask it is cause I don't want to read the 20 first link google will provide before I start to read the real good link. some people might have done this search before...

STiFreak, yes I have studied this option. just trying to see what are all options before I choose wht is more suited for my case

Dynamix, Thanks for that top link

megrac

If you want to make the best use of lpg then but some r&d into liquid lpg injection, it has so many things going for it.