RB5 314

Hi guys

I have owned my RB5 for just over 3 months now and in the last week or so, she has developed a nasty problem.

Sometimes when I go to start the car there is no response at all, not even attempting to crank, as if its still immobilised. It typically takes about 15 minutes of trying to get the car to even think about starting. This problem mostly happens after short journeys to the shops/petrol stations etc (where lots of people can see )

Originally I thought it was radio interference on the alarm but this problem is still there if I use the keypad (which shouldn't be affected by radio interference). Both the led on the dash and warning display appear to behave as they should which makes me think that there isn't a problem with the immobilisers. I have tried both sets of keys as well (thinking that maybe one was dodgy).

Then I thought that the battery might be knackered, as sometimes when the car starts the alarm sounds for a split second. Though I've just tested the battery and both it and the alternator appear to be ok.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be wrong, could it be a problem with the ignition barrel or starter motor or something else.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as at the moment I'm avoiding using the car for fear of being stranded again and looking like a muppet trying to start my car

Cheers

Si

RB5 314

No one had a similar problem?

ozzy

Sorry, but I've not had any similar problems with my RB5 in 6yrs ownership. Only issue was some interference once, when the car wouldn't open via the fob.

If it's doing it a lot (i.e. you can almost guarantee it'll do it in front of them), I'd take it to a local Dealer for them to have a look.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

earth or immobiliser problem.. by the sounds of it.

Simon

Sigma Sam

If it's got the standard UK fit Sigma alarm system (separate single button remote with Blue Subara Decal) and you've heard a bleeping noise from the siren when cranking the engine over, then this indicates that the vehicle’s battery voltage is dropping so low that the siren thinks that someone has cut it’s power supply – the bleeping is the siren’s internal battery kicking in, then it realizes it's disarmed anyway.
The cause is usually either a starter motor drawing too much current, or more likely, the battery not holding sufficient charge (or a combination of both). Such problems usually become apparent at this time of year as things get cold and the starter has to work harder to turn the engine over.

From your post you've already checked the battery voltage, but although a low reading (<12v) would show if the charge is low, a 12v or more reading isn't conclusive that the battery is good - it's the drop when cranking that is the problem.
Also check the battery voltage whilst the engine is running with a voltmeter, to check the alternator output - voltage should be around 13.4v

All this is based on the bleeping you've heard - it may be much simpler.... I once had a similar problem caused by a poor engine earth. It was especially a problem whilst the vehicle was cold. Might be worth undoing, sanding, greasing up and re-securing the earth strap before pointing the finger at the battery or starter!

Best of luck

SS

RB5 314

Cheers SS

I've read a few of your posts on similar threads and know that you have expertise on these subjects

The alarm is the standard sigma m30 as you've described.

I'll have a play with the earth strap and test the draw on the battery when cranking tommorrow to see if that helps.

Incedently thinking about the bleeping when starting, I'm pretty sure that each time its failed to start, its followed one of these bleeps on start up. Would a dodgy battery explain the not starting/immobilser problem i.e. is it likely to mess with the immobilisers on the alarm?

Cheers for your help

ozzy

Very occasionally (and on very cold mornings) I get the alarm sympton SS mentions. Turn the key, the alarm beeps but the engine fires up anyway.

It shouldn't do it all the time; as I say mine has only done this a handful of times in the last 6 years. And I've only noticed it the past two winters.

Certainly could be your battery by the sounds of things. You could alway swap with another good one to test it.

RB5 314

Hi Ozzy

The bleep from the alarm is in the split second before/during/after the car starts. It doesn't do it all the time, but I'm pretty sure that each time its happened is before I have one of these non-start problems. i.e. I start my car as normal (but get the bleep), go for a short journey, park up for a few minutes, return to the car, but it wont start and typically takes 10-15 minutes of looking like a muppet before the car decides to crank and start.
I've never actually had the problem immediately after the bleep i.e. when it refuses to crank, it just refuses to crank, theres no noise/clicking/bleeping.

ozzy

In normal operation the alarm shouldn't beep at all (unless it's been set to beep when armed or disarmed). It does sound electrical, so it's worth swapping the battery from another car that you know works fine. If it's happening all the time, then it shouldn't take long to see if that cures it.

The only time mine has refused to crank is when I haven't disabled the imobiliser i.e. left it unlocked when filling with petrol. I quick press on the fob disables that and it fires straight up.

Defo worth check the voltages as Sigma Sam suggests.

Stefan

albert sponge

my car wouldnt start after short journeys,it was the cam sensor i replaced it £25 hasnt missed a beat since

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Try rocking the car in gear, so that you move the starter motor a little, it could have a dead spot.

I take it that you get a click followed by the fuel pump buzzing for 2-3 seconds when turn the ignition key?

RB5 314

Hi mate, was that because the engine wouldn't crank, or it would crank but wouldn't fire up.

As the problem mine has is refusing to crank at all, at the moment I think it may be a dodgyish battery affecting one of the alarm's immobilisers.

RB5 314

Hi Andy

Yeah I get the click and fuel pump noise when the ignition is turned on.

Sigma Sam

The relays in the alarm should work correctly down to around 9 volts, so a dodgy battery shouldn't prevent the immobiliser circuits operating correctly unless the battery voltage is less than this.
This is because the immobilisation relays are relatively low current (30A max, 10 continuous), the first item to stop working due to low battery voltage would be the starter solenoid which handles higher current.

Incidently, you could confirm that the alarm relays are operating by :
- Listening for the fuel pump when attemting to crank (although possibly depends on fuel rail pressure and the priming system)
or
- With the alarm system disarmed and the ignition turned off wait system until the system passively immobilises (LED extinguishes). Now turn the ignition on and then press the Remote - the LED should flash once and a click should be heard from the immobilisation relays (below the steering column).
If either of these can be heard then the voltage is sufficient to operate the relays.

SS

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

sounds like the starter motor is stuck, as Andy97 says put the car in gear and try pushing/rocking it a bit to free it, try this next time it happens to see if it rectifies it.

RB5 314

Hi guys

Its just happened again, and I've done the above alarm relay test and I'm pretty sure that the alarm relays are working properly i.e. I can hear the fuel pump and the clicking from below the steering column, but it still refused to crank for about 10 minutes .

If it is the starter motor sticking, would this be more apparent after the shorter journies, and how does it manage to unstick itself (when I'm just sat in the car trying the alarm and ignition). Also is this something I could fix or would it need a new starter.

Sorry for all the questions, but as I'm sure you've gathered I'm not very mechanically minded

Cheers

Beastie

iTrader: (2)

This is nothing to do with the alarm. The alarm will not stop the starter motor from cranking. I think it has to be a fault with the starter motor solenoid if the engine does not turn at all. A new starter motor may be required or your battery may be faulty i.e. a dry or faulty cell.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

The starter motor isnt sticking as such. There can sometimes be a dead spot on the brushes, by rocking the car in gear, you move the contact point for the brushes and it might start after that. It sounds like the main solenoid contact is ok because you here the fuel pump priming the fuel system.I once had this on a van whilst making deliveries. Virtually every time I stopped the van, it wouldnt start, but on occasion it would work perfectly. I ended up parking the van on any incline so I could bump start it off. I did this everyday (15 deliveries a day)for nearly a week until the starter motor was replaced.

RB5 314

Hi guys

I have now replaced both the battery and the starter motor, yet sadly the non-starting problem is still haunting me .

Anyone else have any ideas whats wrong with my car, before I hand my wallet over to Subaru and let them empty it

Cheers

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

check battery voltage whilst cranking.. could be alternator not recharging battery enough..

or an earth / power connection to starter..

Sigma Sam

Sorry to hear you're still suffering from this problem.
With the obvious now covered, we're all just hazarding a guess now without having the car to hand.
My next best guess would be to check the main engine earth strap and continuity from the starter switch to the starter solenoid itself.
SS